He executed Talat Pasha in Berlin and was found not guilty of murder. Here are the entire trial proceedings...
Most of it has not been edited after scanning, but I am putting it online already.
On March 15, 1921, Tehlirian assassinated Talaat Pasha in Berlin as an act of vengeance for the
murder of his family and nation. Talaat was the Minister of Interior under the Young Turk regime
of Ottoman Turkey, and was one of the leading figures in organizing the premeditated, systematic
extermination of more than 1.5 million Armenians in 1915.
After World War I, the Military Tribunal in Constantinople tried individual Young Turks for war
crimes. It found Talaat and the other leaders of Ottoman Turkey guilty of "crimes against humanity"
and sentenced them to death. Talaat fled to Germany with Enver Pasha and other Young Turk leaders
to escape prosecution in 1918.
As part of the ARF's "Operation Nemesis," Armenians found many of the escaped criminals in Europe
and Central Asia and served the cause of justice, since the courts had failed to do so.
During Tehlirian's trial in Germany, an initially hostile German public and jury discovered
the horrors for which Talaat had been responsible; Tehlirian, who had readily accepted his
responsibility for the assassination, was acquitted by the courts because of the overwhelming
evidence provided about the Armenian Genocide.
Since Turkey was an ally of Germany in both world wars, in 1943 the Nazis returned Talaat's
remains to Turkey, where he was buried with great ceremony.
THE FIRST DAY OF TRIAL
The Presiding Justice of the District Court, Justice Lehmberg, opened
the proceedings at exactly 9:15 A .M. The presence of the three defense
attorneys and the defendant was noted, and the two interpreters, Va/ian
Zakarian and Kevork Kaloustian, took the oath.
Subsequently, the jurors were chosen by balloting and each one took
an oath stating that he would give his verdict as his conscience dictated.
Then, the presence of the witnesses and the expert witnesses was
verified.
THE PRESIDING JUSTICE (addressing the witness and expert
wttnesses)In this trial, you will be heard as witnesses or as expert
witnesses. The subject matter of this trial is already familiar to you. I
would like, however, to bring to your attention the importance and the
sanctity of taking the oath. You should be aware that our laws provide
for severe punishment for those who either inadvertently or intentionally
give false testimony after taking the oath. Furthermore, any information
you give pertaining to the defendant or your association with him has to
correspond to the truth.
Therefore, I will now ask you to leave this courtroom and wait to be
called in. We will probably decide that some of the witnesses need not be
present today; consequently I would request that you please stay close to
the door.
All the witnesses exit from the courtroom. The following expert
witnesses take their seats;
Dr. Tbiel, regional assistant physician, Berlin Fri edenau.
Dr. Schmilinsky, privy sanitation counselor, Charlottenburg.
Dr. Schloss, physician, sanitary warden 7.
Dr. Stormer, court physician and privy medical counselor, Berlin.
Dr. Hugo Liepmann, psychiatrist distinguished professor at Berlin
University, and privy medical counselor, Berlin.
Dr. Richard Cassirer, neurologist and professor at Berlin University
Prof. Dr. Edmund Forster, psychiatrist and chief physician of the
University Neurological Clinic of Mercy Hospital, Berlin.
Dr. Bruno Haake, neurologist, Berlin.
Mr. Barella, royal gunsmith and expert on firearms, Berlin.
Dr. Phil P. Pfefer, French interpreter, BertinFriedenau.
PRESIDING JUSTICE (to the members of the court and to the defense at-
torneys) After reading the indictment, I intend to examine the defen-
dant in as much detail as possible and hear Mrs. Taint, merchant
lessen, servant Dembickj, police officer Gnass, Chief of Police Schultze,
Advisor to the Court Schultze, Dr. Schloss, Mr. Hareila, and also the
eyewitnesses to the incident. Secondly, I shalt question only those
witnesses who knew the defendant and associated with him while he was
in Berlin and Paris; namely, Mrs. Stetlbaum, Mrs. Dittmann, Miss Lola
BeitensOfl, the teacher, Mr. Apelian, Mr. Eftian, Mr. Terzibashian, Mrs.
Terzibashian, and the recently subpoenaed Samuel Vosgantan.
VON GORDON We agree.
PRESIDING JUSTtCE Hence, I would like to ask the defense at-
torneys to refrain, if possible, from alleging any further evidence, other
than what has already been mentioned.
VON GORDON It is clear that we can only make a decision on this
matter later on in the trial. This case involves a very complicated issue.
On the one hand, we are obligated to protect the rights of the defendant
and, on the other hand, we also feel obligated to protect the interests of
the German government.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Then I shall be satisfied with the witnesses on
lists one and two for today, and, tomorrow, I shall examine those who
were subpoenaed in writing on May 30th or before. Therefore, nineteen
witnesses remain for today.
Perhaps it would also be advisable to designate a lunch break. How do
the jurors feel about this? (Jurors agree) We will take a short break at
1:30 and tomorrow morning we shall examine the rest of the witnesses.
Successively we shall also hear the expert witnesses, Professor Dr.
Cassirer, Dr. Stdrmer, privy counselor Dr. Liepmann, and Professor
Forster.
VON GORDON We request the names of Dr. Lepsius and His Excel-
lency General Liman von Sanders be added to the list of expert witnesses.
We also request that these two expert witnesses be heard as experts on the
whole Armenian Question.
Evidence will be introduced at this trial, gentlemen of the jury, that is
foreign to you and to us; therefore we need a key in order to understand,
especially, the character of the Armenians. For this purpose, the most
qualified individual is Dr. Lepsius who has lived for an extended period
of time there and has personal knowledge of the events that took place.
Also His Excellency, General Liman von Sanders who, as we all know,
has lived in Turkey for many years, not only during the war but before as
well.
We bad planned to call, as an expert witness, the former German Con-
sul to Aleppo. Syria, Mr. Roessler, who presently is in Eger. He sent me
a telegram from there, stating that he could come as an expert witness if
the Foreign Office gave permission. The Foreign Office had initially
given permission; however, as of last night, they would not allow the
Consul to come and be heard as a witness. As to the questions that we
could have asked the Consul, we are in the process of corresponding with
him and we hope to have this matter resolved today.
DISTRICT ATTORNEY I would like to point out that the incident in
question did not take place in Armenia, but rather in Berlin. In my opi-
nion, it is not necessary to hear the testimony of such expert witnesses on
Armenia. However, since the defense attorneys have already invited ex-
pert witnesses, they have to be heard according to the provisions of our
penal code. We cannot object to that. However, I would like to request
that the evidence not be expanded to matters which, in my opinion, have
no relation to the issues that are before us.
VON GORDON We shall try, as much as possible, to limit our
evidence to the issues. But I beg of you that nothing be left out. Believe
me, gentlemen, it is in the interests of the German government that
nothing be left out.
PRESIDING JUSTICE This Court has decided that Professor Dr. Lep-
sius and His Excellency General Liman von Sanders will be heard as ex-
pert witnesses. They both have the right to be present throughout this
trial.
(Professor Dr. Lepsius and General Liman von Sanders enter the
room)
I would like to inform the two gentlemen that, at the request of the
defense counsels, they will be heard as expert witnesses.
I would like to repeat that witnesses Sister Tora von Wedel, Sister Eva
Elvers, Sister Didzum, Mrs. Scbbiker, writer Aram Andonian, Lieuten-
ant Ernest Barakine, Captain Franz Karl Endress, and Vice-Prelate
Balakian will be heard tomorrow. Therefore they may leave today, but
they must be here at 9:00 MM. tomorrow. The other witnesses have to be
here today.
Now we will open the proceedings by putting the defendant on the
stand and begin the questioning about his background.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Is it true that you were born on April 2, 1897 in
Pakarij?
DEFENDANT Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE What line of business were your parents in?
DEFENDANT They were merchants.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Where did they live?
DEFENDANT In Pakarij.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Always?
DEFENDANT When I was only two or three years old, they moved to Erzinga.
PRESIDING JUSTICE How many brothers and sisters did you have?
DEFENDANT Two brothers and three sisters.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Until 1915, were they all living with your parents?
DEFENDANT All except one of my sisters who was married.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Where did you go to school?
DEFENDANT In Erzinga.
PRESIDING JUSTICE For how long?
DEFENDANT About eight or nine years.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you successfully graduate?
DEFENDANT Yes, successfully.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Were your parents~in a good financial position?
DEFENDANT Yes, very good.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did they suffer any losses as a result of the World War?
DEFENDANT Until the massacres, our family did not suffer any
tosses. But business had slowed down a little.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Was one of your brothers a soldier?
DEFENDANT Yes, one of my brothers was a soldier.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Where did he fight, on which front?
DEFENDANT He did not go to the front; he was in Kharpert, south of Erzinga.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Is Kharpert in Armenia?
DEFENDANT Yes, in Asian Turkey.
PRESIDING JUSTICE In 1915, was your brother at home?
DEFENDANT Yes, in 1915, he was home on leave when the
massacres started.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did the massacre at Erzinga come as a corn-
ptete surprise to you or were there already signs of it?
DEFENDANT We thought that there would be massacres, since news
was circulating that people had been killed.
PRESIDING JUSTICE What were peoples thoughts about the
massacres? What was said? What was the cause of them?
DEFENDANT Massacres had taken place all along. From the time I
was born and from the time my parents settled in Erzinga. they always
used to tell us that massacres bad taken place.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Previously as well? When did these massacres take place?
DEFENDANT In 1894 there were massacres in Erzinga.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Were there warnings prior to the 1915 massacres?
Was the reason for the impending massacres known?
DEFENDANT (misunderstands the question) At the time, I had not yet been born.
PRESIDING JUSTICE In 1915?
DEFENDANT We always lived in constant fear that the massacres
would take place, but we knew nothing about the reasons.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Were the people fearful of such massacres?
DEFENDANT For years they lived in fear and, for a long period of
time prior to the massacres, they were afraid these would take place.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you hear anything as to the reasons for the
massacres in the conversations you had at home or on your own?
DEFENDANT I did not understand the question.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Were any reasons for the massacres mentioned
in conversations at home?
DEFENDANT It was mentioned that the new Turkish government
would take measures against us.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Perhaps the Turkish government argued that
military exigencies demanded it. Generally speaking, what was said
regarding the matter?
DEFENDANT At that time, I was still quite young.
PRESIDING JUSTICE But, at the time, you were already 18 years old.
DEFENDANT At that time, they would tell me that there were
religious and political reasons.
PRESIDING JUSTICE I feel it would be worthwhile to include these
events, prior to the incident, in your examination of the defendant.
DISTRICT ATTORNEY I feel that it would be best if we set this aside
and read the indictment.
PRESIDING JUSTICE (after consulting his associates) This court
would like to hear from the defendant in detail how these massacres
came about and what his family went through. Let the defendant relate
bit by bit and let what he says be translated later.
DEFENDANT In 1914, the war started and the Armenian young men
were conscripted into the army. In May 1915, word spread that alt
schools were to be closed and that the leaders of the Armenian communi-
ty and the teachers were to be sent elsewhere in groups.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Were they assembled at certain gathering places?
DEFENDANT I do not know. They were assembled and taken away. I
was quite fearful. I did not want to go out of the house. These groups
had already been taken away when news was spread that those previously
deported had been killed. Later, we received a telegram that there was
only one survivor, Mardirossian, from among those deportees.
In the early part of June, an order was issued for the people to get
ready to leave the city. We were all told that money and valuables could
be given to the government for safekeeping. Three days later, early in the
morning, the people were taken out of the city.
PRESIDING JUSTICE In large groups?
DEFENDANT As soon as the order was issued, on the outskirts of the
city, they divided the people into groups and marched them off in
caravans.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Was there an order to take with you what you had?
DEFENDANT It was impossible to take everything with us since we
did not have a horse or an ox. We were able to take only what we could
carry.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you have a cart to take your belongings?.
DEFENDANT We had a horse, but they took it as soon as the war
started. We then bought a donkey.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Was the donkey to carry all your belongings?
Did you not have a cart?
DEFENDANT We had an ox cart.
PRESIDING JUSTICE How many days did you walk?
DEFENDANT I do not know. The very same day that we left town,
my parents were killed.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Where were you being taken?
DEFENDANT Toward the south.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Who accompanied the caravans?
DEFENDANT Gendarmes, cavalry, and other soldiers.
PRESIDING JUSTICE In large numbers?
DEFENDANT They were all along the road on both sides.
PRESIDING JUSTICE What about the front and rear of the caravan?
DEFENDANT Just on the sides.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Was that so no one would get away?
DEFENDANT Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE How did your parents, brothers and sisters die?
DEFENDANT As soon as the group had gone a little distance from
the city, it was stopped. The gendarmes began to rob us. They wanted to
take our money and anything else of value that we had.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Therefore, even the soldiers were robbing the
deportees?
DEFENDANT Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE What reason was given for those acts?
DEFENDANT Nothing was said about that. It is inexplicable to the
whole world, but in the interiors of Asia Minor it is possible.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Therefore, such things were happening withou
the reasons being understood?
DEFENDANT Yes, they were.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did this happen to other nationalities?
DEFENDANT The Turks only treated the Armenians in this manner.
PRESIDING JUSTICE How did your parents die?
DEFENDANT While we were being plundered, they started firing on
us from the front of the caravan. At that time, one of the gendarmes
pulled my sister out and took her with him. My mother cried out, May I
go blind. I cannot remember that day any longer. I do not want to be
reminded of that day. It is better for me to die than describe the events of
that black day.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - However, I want to point out to you that, for
this Court, it is very important that we hear of these events from you.
You are the only one that can give us information about those events.
Try to pull yourself together and not lose control.
DEFENDANT I cannot say everything. Every time I relive those
events . . . They took everyone away . . . and they struck me. Then I saw
how they struck and cracked my brother's skull with an axe.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - Your sister, the one whom they pulled and took
with them, did she return?
DEFENDANT - Yes, they took my sister and raped her.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - Did she return?
DEFENDANT No.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - Who cracked your brother's skull with an axe?
DEFENDANT - As soon as the soldiers and the gendarmes began the
massacres, the mob was upon us too and my brother's head was cracked
open. Then my mother fell.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - From what?
DEFENDANT - I do not know, from a bullet or something else.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - Where was your father?
DEFENDANT I did not see my father; he was in another group ahead
of us, but there was fighting going on there too.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - What did you do?
DEFENDANT - I was struck on the head and fell to the ground. I have
no recollection of what happened after that.
PRESrDING JUSTICE Having fallen, did you remain at the site of the
massacres?
DEFENDANT - I do not know how long I stayed there. Maybe it was
two days. When I opened my eyes, I saw myself surrounded by corpses.
All the members of the caravan had been killed. Because of the darkness
I could not distinguish everything. At first I did not know where I was
then I began to realize that I was surrounded by corpses.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - Among the dead, did you find the bodies of
your parents, brothers, and sisters?
DEFENDANT I saw my mother's body; she had fallen face down. My
brother's body had fallen on top of me. I could not ascertain anything
more.
PRESIDING JUSTICE What did you do when you opened your eyes
and stood up?
DEFENDANT - When I stood up I realized that my leg was injured and
my arm was bleeding.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - Did you have a wound on your head?
DEFENDANT - I was first struck on my head.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - Do you know what kind of instrument they
wounded you with?
DEFENDANT - When they started the massacres, I put my head in my
hands so that I was not able to see what was happening. I only heard
screams.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - First you said it was the guards, gendarmes,
and cavalry soldiers who attacked you, but then you said the mob attacked
you. What do you mean by this?
DEFENDANT - The Turkish population of Erzinga.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - Then the Turkish population was there and
took part in the robbery?
DEFENDANT All I know is that when the gendarmes started the
massacres, the Turkish population fell upon us.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - Then, after one or two days, you regained
consciousness and found yourself under your brother's body. Were you not
able to determine if your parents' bodies were there too?
DEFENDANT - All I saw was my older brother's body on top of mmine.
DISTRICT AlTORNEY I believe it was your youngest brother whose
head had been split open with an axe.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - Was it your younger brother's body?
DEFENDANT - No, my older brother.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - But did you see your younger brother being hit
by an axe in front of you?
DEFENDANT Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Have you seen your parents since that day?
DEFENDANT No.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - And what about your brothers and sisters.
DEFENDANT - No, I have not seen them either.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - Then, are they lost withoilt a trace?
DEFENDANT - As of today, I have not found any trace.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - What did you do, finding yourself helpless and
without any means?
DEFENDANT - I went to a village in the mountains. An old lady took
me to her family's home but, when my wounds healed, they said they
would not hide me any longer as it was contrary to-the orders of the
government and those who harbored Armenians would be put to death.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - Were the ones who took you into their home Armenians?
DEFENDANT - No, they were Kurds.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - Where did you go from there?
DEFENDANT Those Kurds were very kind people. They advised me to go to
Persia. They gave me old Kurdish clothes as mine were torn and
bloodstained. I burned mine.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - You were deprived of everything. How did you
manage to get by?
DEFENDANT - On barley-bread.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - How long did it take for your wounds to heal?
DEFENDANT - Twenty days or a month.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - After that, where else did you find refuge for
an extended period of time?
DEFENDANT First, I stayed with the Kurds.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - For how long? The 19lS massacres took place in June.
DEFENDANT - I stayed with the Kurds of Dersim for two months.
During that time, I was joined by fugitives from whom I learned that
there had been massacres in Kharpert. The three of us together escaped
from village to village through the mountains. There were days when all
we had to eat was grass. One of my friends died along the way from
eating poisonous grass. My second friend was quite educated. He used to
say: "If we continue to walk on like this, we will surely reach Persia and,
from there the Caucasus.'' We decided we would cross the mountains
and get to Persia.
We used to sleep during the day and walk at night. We had walked for
approximately two months when we arrived at a place where we came
across Russian soldiers. We were wearing Kurdish clothes but no shoes
or hat. They arrested us and began to question us. My friend, by speaking
in French and English, was able to communicate to the Russians that
we were survivors of a massacre. They let us go in the direction of Persia
but would not allow us to cross into the Caucasus. I arrived in Persia
where there was no war. I became ill and stayed in Salmasd. My friend
continued on to Tiflis. Later on, I went there as well and stayed for a
year.
PRESIDING JUSTICE What were you doing in Tiflis?
DEFENDANT _ As soon as I arrived there, I went to the Armenian
2hurch, where I was given food, clothing, and money. Before departing,
ny friend took me to an Armenian merchant. I lived with him and worked
in his shop.
PRESIDING JUSTICE How long did you stay there?
DEFENDANT _ I was in Tiflis a little over a year.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - Then where did you go?
DEFENDANT _ We heard that the Russian army had captured Erzinga,
so I decided to go back to look for my family and rdatives. Furthermore,
I knew we had money hidden at home so I wanted to get that money.
However, the Armenian merchant tried to dissuade me.
PRESrDING JUSTICE - When did you arrive in Erzinga.
DEFENDANT _ At the end of 1916.
PRESIDING JUSTICE What did you find there?
DEFENDANT _ When I arrived there I found all the doors of our house
shattered. One side of the house was demolished. When I went into the
house I passed out.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - Did you lose consciousness?
DEFENDANT _ Yes, I lost consciousness.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you stay in that condition for long?
DEFENDANT _ I cannot say how long I was unconscious.
PRESIDING JUSTICE What did you do when you regained con-
sciousness?
DEFENDANT After regaining consciousness, I found two Armenian
families, the only survivors in the entire town. They had beconpe
Moslems.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - In other words, you found only two families
left from the entire Armenian community, who had become Islamized.
Now, when the Russians captured Erzinga, did they convert back to
Christianity and did they feel they were Christians? Was this all that was
left of the Erzinga population?
DEFENDANT - Yes, these were the only two families. Here and there,
there were a number of individuals, altogether about twenty, but only
these two families.
P~ESIDING JUSTICE - Did you find any belongings at home?
DEFENDANT - Yes, I found a few items. The rest had been destroyed
and burned. I also found the hidden money.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - Did you know about that from your parents?
DEFENDANT - My two brothers, my father, my mother, and I knew
where the money was hidden; my sisters did not know.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - How much money did you find?
DEFENDANT - I found 4800 Turkish gold pieces.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - Did you take the money?
DEFENDANT Of course.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - Where did you go after that?
DEFENDANT - I stayed a little longer there. I was hoping that there
would be other deportees who had escaped. I was hoping that I would
perhaps come across one of my relatives.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - How long did you stay in Erzinga?
DEFENDANT - Approximately a month and a half.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - Where did you go from there?
DEFENDANT To Tiflis.
PREsIDrNG JUSTICE - What did you do there?
DEFENDANT - I went to school to learn Russian.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - What school was that?
DEFENDANT - An Armenian school called the Nersisian Academy.
They had begun special classes for the exiles and refugees to attend.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - Did you learn Russian there?
DEFENDANT - As much as it was possible to learn in five months. I
recall I could not learn very much. My mind was elsewhere. I could not
concentrate.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - Later on did you learn French too?
DEFENDANT - Yes, but not as much as I would have wished.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - How long did you stay in Tiflis?
DEFENDANT - Approximately two years.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - When did you leave Tiflis?
DEFENDANT - In 1919, probably in February.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - Where did you go?
DEFENDANT - To Constantinople.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - What did you do there?
DEFENDANT I put an advertisement in the paper, thinking that I
could find relatives of mine who might have survived and fled from
Mesopotamia.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - At that time a revolution had already taken
place in Constantinople. How long did you stay in Constantinople?
DEFENDANT - Almost two months.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - Where did you go from there?
DEFENDANT - Salonika, Greece.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - From there?
DEFENDANT - To Serbia.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - From there?
DEFENDANT - Back tO Salonika.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - From there?
DEFENDANT - To Paris.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you plan to settle down somewhere? What
was the reason for this wandering?
DEFENDANT - I wanted to study, but my mind was all confused. I did
not want to settle down in one place, since I had no special calling.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - Did you attend school and were you studying in
Salonika and Serbia?
DEFENDANT - No. In Salonika, I stayed with relatives to recieve
medical attention.
PREsrDING JUSTICE What disease did you have?
DEFENDANT - A nervous breakdown.
PRESIDING JUSTICE How many times did you suffer repetitions of
the nervous breakdown, which you had the first time when you saw your
home again?
DEFENDANT - I had two when I returned to Erzinga and saw my
home, but I cannot specify what sort of breakdowns they were. Every
time I pictured the massacres, I would have a breakdown.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - Did YOu have such nervous breakdowns when
you were in Constantinople, Salonika, and Serbia?
DEFENDANT - Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - When did you arrive in Paris?
DEFENDANT - In 1920.
PRESIDING JUSTICE The beginning of 1920?
DEFENDANT Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you have a lot of contact with people in
Constantinople, Salonika, and Serbia?
DEFENDANT Yes, mostly with my relatives.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you discuss the massacre with your
relatives and other refugees and, by so doing, was your memory of it
revived?
DEFENDANT Yes, I used to talk about the massacres a lot.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - Who was considered responsible for these
barbaric acts?
DEFENDANT - I found out who the authors of these acts were from
the newspapers, while I was in Constantinople.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - Prior to that, did you know who the person
responsible for these massacres was? At home who was considered the
author?
DEFENDANT - I did not know anything about it.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - Then did you come to the conclusion that
Talaat Pasha was the author of the massacres?
DEFENDANT - When I was in Constantinople, I became convinced
that he was the person responsible from reading the newspapers.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - When you were in Constantinople, did you
receive any information as to the whereabouts of Talaat Pasha at that
time?
DEFENDANT - I thought he was hiding somewhere in Constantinople.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - Did you make up your mind, at that time, to
take revenge against Talaat, as the one guilty for your family's sad
misfortune?
DEFENDANT - No.
PRESIDING JUSTICE - Fine, I think it is time the indictment is read.
DEFENSE ATTORNEY VON GORDON: I would also like to ask the defendant
whether or not he had read in the newspapers that Talaat Pasha had
been condemned to death for these massacres by the Court Martial in
Constantinople?
DEFENDANT - Yes, I had read that. I was also in Constantinople
when Kemal, one of the authors of the massacres, was hanged. On that
occasion, it was written in the papers that Talaat and Enver were also
condemned to death.
VON GORDON - How many Armenians were living in Erzinga?
DEFENDANT - Roughly twenty thousand.
VON GORDON - In June 1915 was there an order or were arrangements
made for the Armenians to be taken out of town in groups?
DEFENDANT - Yes, such an order was given.
DISTRICT ATTORNEY - Was this an order from the Vali [governor-
general] or was it from the military authority?
VON GORDON - During this period, a state of siege had already been
declared.
DEFENDANT - It was said that the orders came from Constantinople.
VON GORDON - What was the length of the caravan? Was it one hour's
walk from beginning to end?
DEFENDANT - I do not know; maybe it was five hours.
VON GORDON - Was the entire population removed and deported,
and did you find only two families and a few individuals on your return
to Erzinga?
DEFENDANT - Yes.
NIEMEYER - Would you please ask the defendant whether he was
aware that, in 1908, the Armenians, having united with the Young
Turks, especially with Enver and Talaat Pashas, brought about a revolu-
tion and entrusted their national aspirations to them but then became ter-
ribly disappointed when they saw that the Young Turks behaved worse
than Sultan Hamid?
DEFENDANT In 1908, I was too young to understand such things,
but later I was told that young Armenians had worked with the Young
Turks and had become quite disenchanted when 40,000 Armenians were
massacred in Adana in 1909.
PRESIDING JUSTICE I would first like to have the indictment read.
CLERK A student in Mechanical Engineering, Soghomon Tehlirian,
born April 2, 1897 in Pakarij. citizen of Turkey, Armenian-Protestant,
who was residing at 37 Hardenbergstrasse in Charlottenburg with Mrs.
Dittmann and since March 16, 1921 is in the City Jail, is accused of:
Intentionally and with premeditation assassinating the former Grand
Vizir, Talaat Pasha, on March 15, 1921 in Charlottenburg.
According to Article 211 of the Penal Code this isa crime of homicide.
In view of the above mentioned facts, the incarceration continues.
Berlin, April 16, 1921
3rd State Court, Criminal Department No. 6.
PRESIDING JUSTICE (to the interpreter) Please relate to the defen-
dant that the indictment accuses him of killing Talaat Pasha with
premeditation.
(The defendant remains silent)
PRESIDING JUSTICE If you were obliged to give an answer to this in-
dictment, would your answer be in the negative or in the affirmative?
DEFENDANT Negative.
PRESIDING JUSTICE But, prior to this trial, you thought differently.
You admitted that you had premeditated that act.
DEFENDANT When did I say that?
PRESIDING JUSTICE Fine, you do not want to admit that today. Let
us follow the events since your arrival in Paris . . But, on various occa-
sions and at various times, you have admitted that you had decided to
kill Talaat Pasha.
VON GORDON Would you please ask the defendant why he does not
consider himself guilty?
(The Presiding Justice directs the same question to the defendant)
DEFENDANT I do not consider my self guilty because my conscience
is clear.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Why is your conscience clear?
DEFENDANT I have killed a man. But I am not a murderer.
PRESIDING JUSTICE You say that you have no pangs of conscience,
your conscience is clear. Do you not reprove yourself? But ask yourself,
did you want to kill Talaat Pasha?
DEFENDANT I do not understand the question. But I have already
killed him.
PRESIDING JUSTICE What I want to say is, did you have a plan to
kill him?
DEFENDANT I had no such plan.
PRESIDING JUSTICE When did the idea first occur to you to kill
Taint?
DEFENDANT Approximately two weeks before the incident. I was
feeling very bad. I kept seeing over and over again the scenes of the
massacres. I saw my mothers corpse. The corpse just stood up before me
and told me, You know Talaat is here and yet you do not seem to be
concerned. You are no longer my son.
PRESIDING JUSTICE (repeats those words to the jury) So what did
you do?
DEFENDANT I woke up all of a sudden and decided to kill that man.
PRESIDING JUSTICE When you were in Pads and Geneva or at the
time you caine to Berlin, had you already made that decision?
DEFENDANT I had made no decision whatsoever.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you have a general idea that Talaat Pasha
was in Berlin?
DEFENDANT No.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you spend the whole year 1920 in Paris?
DEFENDANT Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE What were you doing there? Did you learn
French?
DEFENDANT Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Nothing else? Were you pursuing any techi\ical
study?
DEFENDANT No, I had no other occupation.
PRESIDING JUSTICE But did you intend to pursue those studies in
Berlin?
DEFENDANT Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Was your purpose in going to Geneva to
facilitate your coming to Berlin?
DEFENDANT I wanted to see Geneva at least once.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Were you with a compatriot of yours in Paris?
Tell us how you arrived in Geneva and then Berlin.
DEFENDANT In Paris, I went to the Swiss Embassy to obtain the
necessary visa to go to Switzerland. There I met an Armenian who was a
citizen of Switzerland and owned a home in Geneva. I asked him how I
could obtain a visa. He told me that it would facilitate matters if I claim-
ed his home in Geneva as mine, since be was on his way to Armema. I
agreed. He gave me a letter of introduction to give to his landlady, and
thus I was able to obtain a visa for Switzerland. I left Paris for Geneva
on November 21st. I stayed in Geneva for a little while and then came to
Berlin. In early December of 1920 I was already in Berlin.
PRESIDING JUSTICE What steps did you take to come here?
DEFENDANT I had a visa attached to my passport.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Initially, did you have a visa for merely a short
stay in Germany?
DEFENDANT Only for eight days.
PRESIDING JUSTICE After arriving here, what section of Berlin did
you go to?
NIEMEYER May I ask a few personal questions of the defendant?
Do you know what country you are a citizen of? On March 15th, did you
know what country you were a citizen of? Do you know what country
Talaat is a citizen of? Are you aware that from February 1921, Turkey
and the Armenian Republic had been at war and that the fighting
reached its peak between March 1 and April 1, 1921, extending over an
area of 120,000 square meters?
DEFENDANT Yes, I know.
PRESIDING JUSTICE How do you know?
DEFENDANT It was written in the newspapers.
PRESIDING JUSTICE The state of war between Armenia and Turkey
had existed only since March 1. This incident occurred on March 15. Did
you read about it in between those dates?
DEFENDANT Yes, I read about it in the newspapers.
PRESIDING JUSTICE When did the war start?
DEFENDANT At the end of 1918. The Turks came as far as Tiflis.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Was there an official declaration of war?
NIEMEYER Yes, total.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Therefore, starting on March 1st, were the
Bolsheviks and the Young Turks fighting side by side against Armenia?
Were you aware that Moscow had given its blessings for the Turco-
Bolshevik attack against Armenia and had sent Enver Pasha to com-
mand the front?
DEFENDANT Yes, I knew that as well.
DR. LIEPMANN Would you please ask the defendant whether he saw
his mother in a dream or was he partially awake at the time?
PRESIDING JUSTICE I shall get to that later. First you had a permit
to remain here for only eight days. Then did you obtain a permit to re-
main here permanently?
DEFENDANT Yes, I filed a petition.
PRESIDING JUSTICE At the beginning of January did you move to
4ugsburgerstrasse?
DEFENDANT In December.
PRESIDING JUSTICE You informed the police department in
ianuary. Did your compatriot, Mr. Apelian, reside in the same building?
DEFENDANT Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Then did you change your residence?
DEFENDANT Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE When?
DEFENDANT Almost two weeks ago.
PRESIDING JUSTICE On March 5th, you moved to Mrs. Dittmann
building. Why?
DEFENDANT When I saw my mother in my dream, I decided to kill
Talaat. For this reason, I also changed my apartment.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Were you, we might say, preparing to commit
the act?
DEFENDANT The second day after my mother instructed me what to
do, I told myself I had to kill Mm.
PRESIDING JUSTICE From that moment on, was it your intention to
implement that decision?
DEFENDANT When I moved to my new residence, I forgot
somewhat my mothers instructions.
PRESIDING JUSTICE You forgot about it? I thought that was the
very reason you changed residences, because your mother had
reprimanded you for having become indifferent.
DEFENDANT I began to deliberate. I asked myself how I could kill a
human being.
PRESIDING JUSTICE You asked yourself how you could kill Talaat
Pasha?
DEFENDANT I told myself that I was unable to kill a human being.
PRESIDING JUSTICE I do not understand this too well. A little while
ago, you replied that, from the day your mother appeared to you, you
decided to move to Hardenbergstrasse. Does this mean you knew that
Talaat Pasha lived across from you?
DEFENDANT Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Then was it your intention to live near him?
DEFENDANT After hearing the words of my mother.
PRESIDING JUSTICE At that time you made a decision. What was
that decision?
DEFENDANT That I wanted to kill him.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Tell me, please, is it true that prior to this you
had already verified that Talaat Pasha was living in Berlin?
DEFENDANT Yes. About five weeks before I had seen him.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Where?
DEFENDANT On the street. He was coming from the vicinity of the
zoo with two or three other men. I heard they were speaking Turkish.
They referred to one of their number as Pasha. I looked back and saw
that the man was Talaat Pasha. I followed them until I came to a movie
theater. From the entrance to the theater I saw one of them depart but,
prior to doing so, he kissed the hand of Talaat and called him Pasha.
The other two entered a house.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you intend to kill Talaat Pasha at that mo-
ment?
DEFENDANT No, I did not. But I felt bad. I entered the theater and,
while watching the movie, all I could see were the pictures of the
massacres. I left the theater and went home.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Therefore, as you said, all this happened four
to five weeks prior to your moving to Hardenbergstrasse?
DEFENDANT Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Is it not true, therefore, that even before this,
you knew Tataat Pasha was living in Berlin?
DEFENDANT No.
PRESIDING JUSTICE The reason I asked this question is because the
defendant on another occasion stated that he had come to Berlin to study
and also because he knew that Talaat was living in Berlin.
VON GORDON The statements made by the defendant today corres-
pond to his last statement. That is, two weeks prior to the incident, the
appearance of his mothers spirit made him decide to kill Talaat and for
that reason he moved to Hardenbergstrasse.
DEFENDANT Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE From that moment on did you make it your
business to stalk Talaat Pasha?
DEFENDANT No, when I moved to my new apartment, I had already
decided to continue with my ordinary routine.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Then, were you physically able to engage in
your everyday work and continue your studies with Miss Beilenson?
DEFENDANT I tried to advance in my studies. While I was under the
care of Professor Cassirer, I felt so bad and weak that I could not work
at my studies much. Consequently, I told Miss Beilenson that I could not
continue to take lessons from her inasmuch as I needed a rest. In fact I
was not studying during this latter period.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you continue your relationships as usual
with your fellow Armenians until March 15th?
DEFENDANT Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did your mother appear to you on that occa-
sion?
DEFENDANT The massacres and especially certain scenes from the
massacres often appeared before my eyes. As for my mother, a few times
only.
PRESIDING JUSTICE When did you have your visions, during the
day?
DEFENDANT No, at night.
PRESIDING JUSTICE What were your reasons for seeking the services
of Professor Cassirer at that time?
DEFENDANT I was feeling very bad.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Here in Berlin you also suffered from a nervous
disorder, ~S that not so?
DEFENDANT Yes, on a few occasions.
PRESIDING JUSTICE When was the first time?
DEFENDANT I cannot say for sure.
PRESIDING JUSTICE When was it that you had a dizzy spelt and an
employee of the bank took you from Erusalemerstrasse to your home?
DEFENDANT That was my first attack in Berlin.
PRESIDING JUSTICE At that time were you still living on Augsburg-
erstrasse?
DEFENDANT Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE How did the first attack come on?
DEFENDANT I was walking along Erusalemerstrasse. I do not
remember whether I fell down in front of the door or in the street. When
I came to, I saw a crowd had gathered around me. Someone had given
me medication. An officer asked me where I lived and accompanied me
to the subway. I took the subway and, after reaching my house, I again
passed out on the stairs.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Why did you go to Prof. Cassirer? Was it
because of these attacks or did you have another illness?
DEFENDANT I went to be treated.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you tell your friend Mr. Apelian about
passing out and was it on his advice that you went to see Prof. Cassirer?
We shall elicit this evidence from the witnesses themselves.
VON GORDON A little while back, a remark was made which was not
clear to me. Did I understand the defendant correctly, that after having
rented an apartment on Hardenbergstrasse, to be near the residence of
Talaat Pasha, the defendant forgot the reason for his move, as he said,
because he could not envisage killing a human being? In short, did the
decision which he had made after the appearance of his mothers spirit
stay firm or did he forget about it after a while and carry on with his
usual business because he thought it was not right to kill?
PRESIDING JUSTICE The defendant stated that he was hesitant.
DEFENDANT Yes, I was irresolute. When I felt sick I thought of
following my mothers instructions. However, when I felt better, I would
tell myself that I could not take a human life.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Therefore, the defendant continued with his
regular daily life, even though it was somewhat difficult for him to do so.
Did you notice any change in your relationships with your friends? By
the way, who were your friends?
DEFENDANT Terzibashian, Eftian, Kaloustian, and Apelian.
PRESIDING JUSTICE (turning to the interpreter) Were you a friend
of his too?
INTERPRETER Yes.
PRESIDING Jusrc~ Since January, besides taking private lessons in
German from Miss Beilenson, what else did you do?
DEFENDANT I visited Armenian families and went to the theater and
dances.
PRESIDING JUSTICE I believe you also took dancing lessons, right?
DEFENDANT Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE When?
DEFENDANT Since January.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Is it true that you had an attack during one of
your dance classes?
DEFENDANT Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Is it true that you suffered such an attack in
January?
DEFENDANT Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Other than these two attacks, one during the
dance class and the other in the street, did you have any others?
DEFENDANT Yes, at home.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Only at home? Not in the streets?
DEFENDANT No.
PRESIDING JUSTICE What else did you do to pass the time?
DEFENDANT I had a very close relationship with Terzibashian, Ef-
tian, and Apelian.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you go to the theater?
DEFENDANT Yes, but I used to go to the movies more often.
PRESIDING JUSTICE How did you keep busy during an average day?
DEFENDANT In the mornings I studied languages and then had my
classes with Miss Beilenson.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Where did you have your meals?
DEFENDANT I did not go to any particular restaurant as such.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you also have lessons in the afternoon?
DEFENDANT My classes were mostly in the afternoon.
PRESIDING JUSTICE In addition to language, did you pursue any
technical studies?
DEFENDANT No, I just concentrated on learning languages.
PRESIDING JUSTICE What newspapers did you read?
DEFENDANT When I visited Armenians, I read the Armenian papers
they had.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you read any other foreign papers?
DEFENDANT On a few occasions I came across Russian papers and I
read them.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Let us go back to the month of March when
you moved into Mrs. Dittmanns apartment building. How was your
relationship with your farmer landlady, Mrs. Stellbaum?
DEFENDANT I had a very good relationship with her.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Were you satisfied with Mrs. Dittmann?
DEFENDANT Yes.
PRFSIDI NO SUSTICE How did it come about that you committed this
homicide?
DEFENDANT It was because of what my mother told me. I was
~hinkiflg about that and on March 15th I saw T~~t...
PRESIDING JUSTICE Where did you see him?
DEFENDANT While I was walking around in my room, I was reading
and I saw Talaat leave his house.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you see him leave the house?
DEFENDANT First I saw him on the balcony of his apartment. Then,
he left the house. When he stepped out of the house, my mother came to
my mind. I again saw her before me. Then, I also saw Talaat, the man
who was responsible for the deaths of my parents, my brothers, and my
sisters.
PRESIDING JUSTICE You also saw your relatives before your eyes
and thought that Talaat Pasha was responsible not only for their deaths
but also for the deaths of your fellow nationals. Did you know perhaps
that Talaat was going to leave the house?
DEFENDANT No.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Then what did you do?
DEFENDANT The minute I saw him step out of the house, I took my
pistol, ran after him, and shot him.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Where did you keep your pistol?
DEFENDANT With my underclothes in a trunk.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Was the pistol loaded?
DEFENDANT Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE How long had you had that pistol?
DEFENDANT I bought it when I was in Tiflis in 1919 and brought it
with me. I had heard that if the Turks returned and did not find Germans
there, they would again carry out massacres.
PRESIDING JUSTICE As Talaat left the house, did you again have the
vision of your mother?
DEFENDANT I cannot say for sure. When I saw him, I saw my
mother and dashed out to the street.
PRESIDING JUSTICE When you went outside, did you see Taint on
the opposite sidewalk?
DEFENDANT Yes, he was walking in the direction of the zoo.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you approach him and did you deliberately
cross }-Iardenbergstrasse?
DEFENDANT No, I ran along the same side of the street as my apart-
ment building. When I caught up to him, I crossed the street and was
Upon him.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you see his face? Did you talk to him?
DEFENDANT I did not speak to him. I walked past him on the
sidewalk and then I shot him.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Are you sure that you passed him first? Did
you shoot him as he was walking toward you or did you approach him
parallel from the back and fire at him?
DEFENDANT By the time I approached Talaat Pasha I was already
behind him.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Then you shot him from the back?
DEFENDANT Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you aim at his head?
DEFENDANT I came very close to him.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you hold the barrel to his head?
DEFENDANT Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Then what happened?
DEFENDANT I only know this much. I cannot be any more specific.
Talaat Pasha fell to the ground, blood gushed from his face, and a crowd
was standing all around him.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you see anyone accompanying Tataat?
DEFENDANT No, I did not see anyone.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you not see his wife either?
DEFENDANT No.
PRESIDING JUSTICE What did you do after the killing?
DEFENDANT I do not know what I did.
PRESIDING JUSTICE You escaped. Do you not remember that you
fled the scene?
DEFENDANT I do not remember running away. All I saw was blood
flowing and that there was a crowd around him.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you flee after seeing that?
DEFENDANT When I saw the crowd standing around me, I figured
they might beat me. That is why I ran away.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Were you apprehended right next to the body
or was it after you ran away?
DEFENDANT I do not know how it happened.
PRESIDING JUSTICE You had run quite a way toward Fazanen-
strasse. Is that not true?
DEFENDANT I do not know.
PRESIDING JUSTICE You threw your pistol away, is that not true?
DEFENDANT I do not know.
PRESIDING JUSTICE What feeling did you have, seeing Talaat Pasha
dead before you? What were your thoughts?
DEFENDANT I do not know what I felt immediately after the inci-
dent.
PRESIDING JUSTICE But after a while you must have realized what
you had done.
DEFENDA~ I realized what I had done after they brought me to the
poliCC station.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Then, what did you think of what you had
done?
DEFENflA>~~ I felt a great satisfaction.
PRESIDING JUSTICE How do you feel about it now?
DEFENDA~ Even today, I feel a great sense of satisfaction.
PRESIDING JUSTICE You are aware, of course, that under normal
circumstances, no one has the right to be his own judge, no matter how
much one has suffered.
DEFENDANT I do not know. My mother instructed me to kill Talaat
Pasha since he was guilty for the massacres and I was under this compui-
siofl so entirety that I did not realize that I should not have killed.
PRESIDING JUSTICE But did you know that our laws prohibit the
killing of human beings?
DEFENDANT No, I do not know that law.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Is there a rule of vendetta among the Arme-
nians?
DEFENDANT No.
NIEMEYER At the time the crowd was beating you up and while you
were bleeding, you said something. Do you remember what you said to
the crowd in order to justify your act?
PRESIDING JUSTICE His testimony would seem to indicate that he
did not run away. He only saw the blood and the crowd and he was ar-
rested on the spot. Do you remember whether or not someone from the
crowd spoke to you or did you say anything to any one of those who
grabbed you and were beating you? Did you justify your action to them?
DEFENDANT I told them that I was a foreigner, the victim was ~
foreigner, and therefore why should the Germans get involved in
something that did not concern them?
PRESIDING JUSTICE You supposedly told the crowd that you knew
what your were doing, that it was no toss to Germany.
(Defendant repeats his last remark)
NIEMEYER Did you know that such an act would be punishable in
Germany? I would like an explanation.
PRESIDING JUSTICE That point has already been explained. The
defendant has been incarcerated from the day he committed the crime.
There is no contradiction whatsoever between the testimony he has given
today and the confession he has previously given.
VON GORDON On which floor of 34 Hardenbergstrasse did you live?
Talaat Pasha lived at 4 Hardenbergstrasse that is, in the house be-
tween Schiflerstrasse and Onezebegstrasse.
DEFENDANT I lived on the first floor.
VON GORDON On March 15th you saw Talaat Pasha leave his
house. You took your revolver, put on your hat, descended the stairs,
and came out to the street. At that time, as far as I can tell, Talaat Pasha
must have already gone some distance past (nezebegstrasse.
DEFENDANT I told you already that in order to catch up with him, I
ran.
VON GORDON In that case you walked over some plants in the mid-
dle of Hardenbergstrasse. Were you ahead of Talaat?
PRESIDING JUSTICE The defendant has aiphatically denied that he
approached Talaat from behind.
VON GORDON Please put the question again to the defendant.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Explain this matter again.
DEFENDANT I went ahead of rataat Pasha and waited for him.
When he passed me, I fired.
PRESIDING JUSTICE That sounds quite feeble-minded to me. Talaat
Pasha could Have seen you and could have suspected that you were con-
triving to do something against him. That was really a foolish move. Are
you sure you did not approach Talaat from behind?
DEFENDANT I did not think of such things.
PRESIDING JUSTICE There are two possibilities. Either you ap-
proached Talaat Pasha from behind or you went ahead of him. We are
still unable to determine whether or not Talaat Pasha passed you.
VON GORDON From what the defendant has testified, I understand
it to mean that Talaat passed the defendant. This is what the defendant
has repeatedly stated. Did you see Talaats face?
DEFENDANT Yes, while I was walking on the other side of the street,
before I crossed over to the side on which he was walking.
PRESIDING JUSTICE We shall see what the other witnesses testify on
this point.
DISTRICT ATTORNEY In answer to a question put by one of the
defense counsels, the defendant stated that he was aware Talaat Pasha
had been sentenced to death in Constantinople. It is true there was such a
verdict, but it is essential for me to clarify that the verdict was rendered
when the control of the city of Constantinople was in the hands of a dif-
ferent government. Turkey had lost the war and Constantinople was at
the mercy of the British Navy. I leave it to the court to determine what
value that death sentence had. I would like the defendant to answer a
question. He said that he had found his brothers body. Did he bury his
brother?
DEFENDANT No.
PRESIDING JUSTICE The defendant fled. His life was in danger.
DISTRICT ATTORNEY The defendant also testified that he received
medical treatment. Does he have wounds or scars on his body?
DEFENDANT Certainly.
DISTRICT ArrORNEY I request that such be confirmed later on. I
would like the defendant to be asked again the following question: How
did he know that person was Talaat? Had he seen him before or did he
recognize him from the pictures he had seen?
DEFENDANT No, I had never seen him. I recognized him only from
pictures in the newspapers.
DISTRICT ATrORNEY The defendqnt testified that the massacres
took place just outside the city limits of Erzinga. I am informed that,
after the caravan had gone quite a distance from Erzinga, armed Kurdish
bandits attacked the caravan in a pass and even many Turkish gendarmes
were killed trying to protect the caravan. Would the defendant please
answer whether or not they were attacked by Kurdish bandits?
DEFENDANT I was told that it was the Turkish gendarmes who
opened fire on us.
NIEMEYER I hope the matter of these Kurdish bandits will be
clarified.
DISTRICT AttORNEY It seems quite strange to me that the defen-
dant was able to find a place on Hardenbergstrasse in such a short period
of time.
NIEMEYER I believe we can resolve the question of the Kurds this
way. The principal modus operandi of the Turkish massacres was to arm
the mountainous Kurds, the arch-enemies of the Armenians, as gen-
darmes to watch over the Armenians.
DEFENDANT There are various types of Kinds. Some were the
enemies of the Armenians, while others were quite friendly to them.
NJEMEYER The defendant stated that he found refuge among the
Kurds. Thus there are good Kurds and bad Kurds. This is evident from
the defendants statement that the Kurds were very hospitable to him.
But there are also Kurds who are friendly with the Turkish government.
DEFENDANT The majority of the Kurds worked for the government.
WERTHAUER How old were your parents when your father died?
DEFENDANT My father was fifty-five; my mother, fifty-two or fifty-
three; my brothers, twenty-eight and twenty-two; one sister, twenty-six
or twenty-seven; another, sixteen and a half; and the youngest fifteen.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Was your married sister deported together with
her husband and child?
DEFENDANT Yes, they left together but, in the caravan, they were a
little apart from each other.
WERTHAUER The defendant stated today that, except for his
brothers body, he did not see the corpses of any of his relatives.
However, he had told me something else before. Perhaps there was a
misunderstanding. I would like to ask him whether or not he saw one of
his sisters disappear into the far-off brush and whether or not he again
found that sister?
DEFENDANT I saw my mother fall, my dead brother, and other
Corpses. i could not verify any others, as I was trying to escape.
WERTHAUER You testified that in Erzinga there were 20,000 Arme-
nian Christians. What other nationalities were there?
DEFENDANT There were some 20,000-25,000 Turks living in Erz-
inga.
WERTHAUER Were notices posted on the walls instructing the
Armenians to leave their houses or were oral instructions to this effect
given? How were 20,000 Armenians informed in such a short time? As I
understood, it all happened during the course of one morning. A few
moments ago, I understood that the orders were given for the Armenians
to leave the city. How did this happen?
DEFENDANT The Armenians living in the city and in the surround-
ing areas were gathered together and taken out of the city. Those left
behind were driven out later.
WERTI-IAUER Was the order from the government9
DEFENDANT Yes, we were told that the order came from Constan-
tinople; it was Talaat Pashas order.
WERTHAUER At the time were you told that the order had come
from Talaat Pasha?
DEFENDANT Yes, that is what was said. That was the news that was
circulated.
WERTHAUER Would you please ask the defendant whether the
schools were closed in February, whereas he remained in Erzinga until
May?
PRESIDING JUSTICE The defendant has already told us that the
schools were closed a month before the incident.
DEFENDANT Two or three months before the incident.
WERTHAUER Would you please ask him whether the money he
found at home was in gold coins?
DEFENDANT It was gold coins.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Was that money sufficient to last you all this
time?
DEFENDANT Yes.
WERTI-IAUER The amount was 4800 Turkish gold pounds; one
Turkish pound is worth 20 gold marks.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Are you stilt living on that money?
DEFENDANT Yes.
VON GORDON When they dragged away your younger sister, did
you hear her cry out?
DEFENDANT Yes, I heard her cry and my mother saw her too. My
mother came next to me and cried out, May I be struck blind.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Are there any questions to be directed to the
defendant?
DISTRICT ArrORNEY I would like one more explanation. How did
the defendant bring that money into Germany?
DEFENDANT I had same in my pockets and the rest in my suitcase.
PRESIDING JUSTICE If there are no other questions, let us start call-
ing some of the witnesses.
Witness Nicholas Jessen (a merchant from Charlottenburg District
of Berlin, Protestant, 40 years old) takes the oath.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Were you an eyewitness?
WITNESS Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Would you relate to us what you saw?
WITNESS On Tuesday, MarcH 15th, at 11:00 oclock in the morning,
I was walking along Hardenbergstrasse going toward Wittenberg Square
to see various customers. I am a representative of a meat packing com-
pany. Ahead of me, a man wearing a grey Ulster coat was walking slow-
ly. All at once this defendant passed me going at a brisk pace. He put his
hand in his pocket
PRESIDING JUSTICE Where were you going? Were you walking on
the right-hand sidewalk?
WITNESS Yes, I was going toward the zoo.
PRESIDtNG JUSTICE During that time, did the defendant walk past
you on the sidewalk?
WITNESS Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did he take the revolver out of his pocket?
Which pocket?
WITNESS I am not certain of the details. I believe he took the
revolver out of his right breast pocket. In any case it was a revolver. He
took it out of his pocket and fired at the victims head, at close range,
from behind. The victim immediately fell forward, hitting the ground
and cracking his skull. The defendant threw the revolver aside and tried
to escape. A woman was walking a little way ahead of the victim; she also
fell unconscious. First I lifted the woman up, thinking she too was in-
jured. Then I started running after the defendant and I apprehended him
on Fazanenstrasse. Naturally a crowd gathered and the people started
mercilessly hitting the defendant. One man, in particular, kept hitting the
defendants head with a key. Others were shouting, Catch the
murderer. I took the defendant to the police station next to the zoo.
There the defendant asked for a cigarette. A crowd also formed at the
police station and began to beat the defendant.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Are you altogether certain that the defendant
walked past you on the sidewalk?
WITNESS Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE And he fired at the nape of the victims neck?
WITNESS Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did he not perhaps cross over from the op-
posite side and, after letting Talaat Pasha pass him, fire from the back?
WITNESS No.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did he see the victims face from the front?
WITNESS No. I have to contradict that. The defendant advanced at
a fast clip and, without saying anything, took out the revolver and fired
at the nape of the victims neck.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did he fall to the ground immediately?
WITNESS He fell forward.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did the defendant not wait at all?
WITNESS No.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did he flee immediately?
WITNESS Yes. He entered Fazanenstrasse and headed in the direc-
tion of Kantstrasse.
PRESIDING JUSTICE In which direction was the woman walking?
WITNESS The woman was walking ahead of the victim.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Was she not walking next to him?
WITNESS No.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Was she accompanying the victim?
WITNESS No.
PRESIDING JUSTICE And she fainted?
WITNESS Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Was there anyone else close by the victim?
WITNESS No.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Were you the first to get to the victims body?
WITNESS First, I lifted the woman up.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Was it only then that you noticed the victim
was already dead?
WITNESS Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE At that time did others arrive on the scene?
WITNESS A furniture truck was passing by then and a man came out
of a villa with his servants.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Are there any other questions to be directed to
this witness?
(No further questions)
Witness Boleslav Detnhicki (a servant from Charlottenbnrg
District of Berlin, 32 years old) takes the oath.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Would you tell us what you know about the in-
cident?
WITNESS I was walking on Hardenbergstrasse on my way home to
have lunch.
PRESIDING JUSTICE In which direction were you walking?
WITNESS I was going toward the zoo.
PRESIDING JUSTICE On the right side of the street?
WITNESS Yes. The defendant reached me at the corner of Fazanen-
strasse.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Were you walking on the sidewalk?
WITNESS Yes, the defendant reached me three or four steps away
from the victim. All of a sudden I heard an explosion. I thought a tire
had blown out nearby. But then I saw a man fall down in front of me and
another began to flee.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did he start to flee right away?
WITNESS Yes, immediately. And, I started to run after him. The
defendant entered Fazanenstrasse from the left side but a number of peo-
pie were in front of him in the street and he could not escape. The witness
who just testified was the one who apprehended him. From there we took
the defendant to the precinct station next to the zoo.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Are you sure that the man who passed you was
the defendant?
WITNESS Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did the defendant see the victim from the front
or did he move up on the victim from the back?
WITNESS The defendant went up to the victim from behind, took
the revolver out and fired at him.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did he pass you, coming on the sidewalk?
WITNESS Yes, he made a slight turn, looked at the balcony of one of
the buildings, walked up to the victim, and fired.
PRESIDING JUSTICE After the incident, did you hear the defendant
make any exclamatory remarks?
WITNESS No.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did people ask him questions? Did he justify
his actions?
WITNESS He was a foreigner, he said. I am a foreigner too.
There is no loss.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Where did he utter those words?
WITNESS At the guard house.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did he stay next to the victims body?
WITNESS No.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Right after firing his revolver, did he throw it
away and flee?
WITNESS Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE And did you run after him?
WITNESS Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you notice if there was a woman walking
either alongside the victim or a little ahead of him?
WITNESS No, I did not notice that.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Then there was no one immediately next to the
victim?
WITNESS No, there was no one.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Then you saw the victim walk calmly down the
street?
WITNESS Yes, very calmly.
PRESIDING JUSTICE And there was no one next to him?
WITNESS No.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Then were you and Mr. Essen the first ones to
get to the body or were there others?
WITNESS We were the first ones.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Are there any other questions to be directed to
the witness?
(No further questions. The questioning of the next witness, Talaat
Pasha s widow, was considered superfluous because it came to light that
the statements, according to which she was the woman who, at the time
of the murder, was with Talaat Pasha and had fainted, were incorrect.)
Witness Paul Schultze (Chief of Police, Charlotteuburg District of
Berlin, 47 years old) takes the oath.
PRESIDING JUSTICE What do you have to say about the incident?
WrrNrss On the day in question, I was informed by telephone that
a homicide had been committed on Hardenbergstrasse and that the
murderer had been apprehended. I went to the scene of the crime and
saw the victim on the sidewalk. The area was cordoned off by the police.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you not carry out any investigation at the
scene of the crime?
WITNESS No.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you concentrate your attention on the vic-
tim or on the defendant?
WITNESS I was busy with the corpse. I took all his personal belong-
ings from his pockets. I did not see the culprit again.
PRESIDING JUSTICE The indictment against the defendant was bas-
ed then on what the witnesses told you and was not a result of any in-
vestigation on your part. Is that correct?
WITNESS Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Are there any questions to be directed to the
witness?
VON GORDON Where was the body? Was it between Fazanenstrasse
and Steinplatz or between Steinplatz and Gnezebegstrasse?
WITNESS Right in front of 17 Hardenbergstrasse, between Fazanen-
strasse and Joacbimstalerstrasse, and closer to Fazanenstrasse.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Any other questions?
(No further questions)
PRESIDING JUSTICE Mr. Interpreter, would you please inform the
defendant that two witnesses have just testified that he did not walk past
the victim but that he walked behind the victim on the sidewalk and,
after passing a few people, reached Talaat and shot him from the back.
DEFENDANT The incident occurred just as I described it to you. I
walked past the victim and then shot him from the back.
PRESIDING JUSTICE That does not correspond to what these
witnesses have testified.
VON GORDON Perhaps the defendant was so excited at the time that
he does not remember well.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Perhaps you do not recall definitely how it hap-
pened. The two witnesses stated you shot the victim from the back
without walking past him.
DEFENDANT I crossed the Street and fired from the back.
voN GORDON I would like to ask the Presiding Justice whether the
witness Resch is present, as his testimony is ηssential.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Let one of the officers check and see whether
witness Rescb has arrived.
(Witness Resch had not arrived yet.)
PRESIDING JUSTICE I would like to bring to the attention of the
preceeding two witnesses, Mr. Jessen and Mr. Dembicki, the fact that the
defendant has given testimony which is contrary to theirs.
The defendant indicates that he crossed the street and was ahead of
Talaat. He allowed Talaat to pass him. Then the defendant walked past
you both on the right-hand sidewalk and shot Talaat from the back.
JESSEN Perhaps the defendant is fight. However, the defendant
walked past me twenty meters before the spot where Talaat was shot.
Perhaps he crossed the alley next to the Music School.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Then, in that case, did he reach Talaat some
distance ahead?
DEMBICKI He approached the victim on the sidewalk of Harden-
bergstrasse and reached him on Fazanenstrasse.
JESSEN I asked the defendant immediately why he had shot the
man. He replied, I am an Armenian. He is a Turk. It is no loss to Ger-
many.
PRESIDING JUSTICE I believe the defendant probably made that
statement later.
lESSEN I asked him why he had shot the man. Then I searched him
to see if he had another gun or perhaps a knife. He then said, I am an
Armenian. He is a Turk. It is no loss to Germany. He made this state-
ment some five minutes after the act.
PRESIDING JUSTICE There is still a discrepancy in these statements.
But they are not conflicting. Both statements could be true.
VON GORDON For me the question is quite clear. Witness Reschs
statement corresponds to what the defendant said and is contrary to the
testimony of Jessen and Dembicki
Witness Captain Guass (Police Department, Charlottenbur
District of Berlin) takes the oath.
PRESIDING JUSTICE What do you know about the incident? Did You
examine the body and arrange for it to be removed?
WITNESS I was informed on Tuesday, March 15, at noon that a
Turk had been shot on Hardenbergstrasse. The culprit was apprehended
and beaten.
A day later, I examined the body of the victim and found a bullet hole
above the left eye. One could put ones finger into it. I looked with some
skepticism at the hole above the left eye. I could not see any injury what-
soever in the back of the head, even though it was covered with blood.
In the afternoon I summoned the guilty party. Unfortunately, we had
difficulty communicating with each other. I beard that he had admitted
killing the victim because he considered the victim responsible for the
deaths of his parents. I asked him if he spoke German and how he had
killed the victim.
I held the revolver in my hand and asked the defendant to show me
how he had committed the crime. I held the gun in front of my head and
asked him if that is how he had fired. He said no, and indicated that he
shot from the back. He did not want to say anything more than that.
In the District Attorneys office, he asserted he had committed the
crime because he believed the victim to be responsible for his parents
deaths. Through further investigation we were able to ascertain that the
defendant had come from Geneva at the beginning of March to Berlin-
Schdneberg and was living at 51 Augsburgerstrasse.
PRESIDING JUSTICE In January?
WITNESS Yes, in January. In March he changed his residence. I
tried to determine the reason for his moving but I could not ascertain any
valid reason. At 37 Hardenbergstrasse the defendants high, ground-
floor apartment faced directly onto the victims apartment. Thus, the
defendant had the opportunity to keep the victim under house
surveillance.
On the day of the incident, a witness declared that he was walking on
Hardenbergstrasse, while the defendant was coming from the opposite
direction. At the Music School, the defendant crossed the street. Also, a
woman was walking ahead of the victim. The defendant approached the
victim, took the revolver out of his coat pocket and, without any hesita-
tion, fired. The victim immediately fell to the ground. The defendant
bent over him to make certain he was dead and then escaped.
PRESIDING JUSTICE On that occasion, do you remember if you in-
terrogated witness Resch, who has not arrived yet in this courtroom? Do
you remember if you had any discussion as to whether the defendant shot
from the back or whether he allowed him to first go past and then shot
him?
WITNESS I do not remember if it was witness Resch or not who
stated that he perhaps saw that the defendant came upon the victim from
the front or from the back.
PRESIDING JUSTICE What does that mean, from the front or the
back?
WITNESS That he fired at the victim from the back.
NIEMEYER I believe both perceptions are reconcilable. When one
crosses the Street, it is only natural that he would fall behind a person
~a1kiflg on the other side. This is true even if, at the time one person
started crossing the street, both were walking parallel to each other. This
is especially likely when you consider that Hardenbergstrasse is a very
wide boulevard. In my OpifllOfl the defendant walked past the victim.
WERTI-{AUER The defendant did not live on the ground floor, but
rather the first floor.
PRESIDING JUSTICE He previously said the first floor. Me probably
meant to say the high, ground floor
Witness Dr. Schloss (42 years old, Charlottenburg, Seventh
Sanitary Division) takes the oath.
WITNESS On March 15th word reached the Seventh Sanitary Patrol
Unit from the Sanitary Division of the zoo that a crime had been com-
mitted on Hardenbergstrasse. I went there. The street had been closed
off by the police. The victim had a bullet hole in the back of his head. I
did not feel it necessary to conduct a detailed examination. So much
blood had gushed out from the opening that I could not see much more. I
have nothing more to add.
(The witness is excused)
witness Dr. Schtnulinsky (Medical Advisor, Charlottenburg, 63
years old) takes the oath.
PRESIDING JUSTICE On March 15th you performed an autopsy on
Talaat Pasha with Dr. Till. Would you give us the results of your ex-
amination?
WITNESS We found a large circular opening in the back of his head.
The wound contained countless pieces of pulverized bone. Upon dissec-
ting, we discovered that the brain had become totally black and was
bathed in blood. The back of the head was completely smashed and so
much blood had gushed to his brain that death was instantaneous. In all
probability. he also suffered a heart attack a split second later.
(The witness is excused)
Expert witness Mr. Barella (royal antis maker and munitions ex-
pert, Berlin) takes the oath.
Mr. Barella examines the revolver.
PRESIDING JUSTICE (looking at the defendant) Did you use this
weapon to kill Talaat Pasha
DEFENDANT I cannot be certain.
PRESIDING JUSTICE You had the weapon for a considerable period
of time; you must be able to recognize your revolver.
DEFENDANT It locks as though it is the same as mine.
WITNESS Its barrel has a diameter of 8-9 mm. Itis a weapon of-
ficially approved for use by the German Army. It is an automatic and is
capable of firing eight bullets without reloading. It is war surplus and
was made in 1915 by the Deutsche Waffen und Munitionsfabrik. The
bullets are from army stores.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Can you tell whether or not the weapon has
been used extensively?
WITNESS It is fairly new. In any event, it has been well kept.
PRESIDING JUSTICE (looking at the defendant) Have you used the
weapon at any other time?
DEFENDANT No.
(No more questions are directed to the witness)
Witness Elizabeth Stellbattm (landlady at 51 Augsburgerstrasse in
Berlin, 63 years old, Protestant) takes the oath.
WITNESS The defendant lived in my building. I have only com-
plimentary things to say about him. He was very well behaved and
modest. I have no maid and, therefore, I do all the housework. The
defendant always did whatever he could to make my job easier. For ex-
ample, he used to polish his own shoes. In every respect, he was decent
and modest.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Was he ever sick?
WITNESS I-fe became sick just before Christmas, a few days after he
had moved in. For that reason he was late in reporting his new address to
the police. From the very first day, I wanted to let the police know where
he was, but he had to report personally. On account of his illness he was
late.
It was a few days after he had moved in. I was in the kitchen when I
heard someone fumbling with his keys. I thought to myself that it was
probably my new tenant and that he still was not used to using the key. I
came to the door and when I saw the defendant he looked odd to me. I
thought he was drunk. He greeted me, but I thought he was quite
disturbed.
He went to his room and I entered my apartment. I listened, expecting
him to turn on the gas heater. I heard him use the washbasin and then I
heard him sit in the armchair and then there was quiet. I stood outside his
door listening, but all was quiet.
The next day I did not hear anything about what happened the night
before and I told my other tenant, Mr. Apelian, that Tehlirian had been
drunk the night before. I asked him to tell the defendant that I would not
tolerate drunks in my house. I understood Mr. Apelian talked to Mr.
Tehlirian about it.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did he seem to be sick at any other time?
WITNESS He was very nervous and could not sleep. Whenever
anyone asked him how he was, he always said the same thing.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Do you know which physician he used to go to?
WITNESS Yes, Professor Cassirer. I recommended a doctor to him
specializing in nervous disorders who lived somewhere on Potsdamer-
strasse. I do not know the exact address. Acquaintances of mine had told
me about him. He was not Dr. Haake in any case.
PRESIDING JUSTICE What else car you tell us about him? Was he
neat?
WITNESS Very neat.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Do you know that he took dancing lessons?
WITNESS Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did other Armenians come to visit him often?
WITNESS Only one person, Levon Eftian.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did he often go out with Mr. Apelian?
WITNESS Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Were you not surprised when he suddenly mov-
ed elsewhere?
WITNESS Of course I was.
PRESIDING JUSTICE What did you say about it then?
WITNESS He wanted to stay with me until May 1st. So I told him, I
thought you were going to stay with me until May 1st. He told me that
his doctor had recommended that he should look for a room with
sunlight, as gaslight was bad for his health. I believed what he said
because he was a very nervous person. He moved on March 5th. His
roam was next to mine and I could hear everything that went on in his
room. At night he seemed to have nightmares.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did he seem normal to you? Was he in posses-
Sian of his faculties?
WITNESS He was never impolite. He was very kind and polite. I
have only nice things to say about him.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you not know anything about his epileptic
seizures? Once, as he entered the building, he supposedly fell down.
WITNESS Yes, that is the incident I described previously.
PRESIDING JUSTICE (to the interpreter) Would you please tell the
defendant that this witness did not testify against him. She only said that
she had seen him sick on one occasion.
(Looking at the attorneys) Are there any other questions to be asked of
the witness?
VON GORDON Did the defendant play any musical instruments?
WITNESS Yes, he always played his mandolin.
VON GORDON Did he ever sing?
WITNESS Yes, he used to sing very melancholy tunes. He always had
the mandolin in his hands and, when he was alone, he used to walk back
and forth in the room with it in his hands.
VON GORDON While he was playing his mandolin, did he frequently
turn the gas lights off?
WITNESS Yes, once while the other gentleman was in his room, I
went to his apartment and opened the door as I wanted to speak to him. I
noticed that both of them were sitting in the dark, smoking and playing
their musical instruments. They told me that a better mood was created
in the dark.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Was it more mystical?
DR. LLEPMANN The witness said that the defendant was very ner-
vous. What did she mean by that? Was he very serious?
WITNESS Yes, he was very serious. He was always serious.
DR. LIEPMANN More sad than jovial?
WITNESS Yes.
DR. LIEPMANN Was he not full of life like others of his age?
WITNESS Many times I wondered why he was so depressed.
DR. LIEPMANN Was he lost in thought? Did it seem as if he was
preoccupied with something else?
WITNESS No and, besides, I did not have that much contact with
hint
DR. LIEPMANN What do you mean when you say that he was ner-
vous? Do you mean that his mind wandered?
WITNESS Yes, many times he would talk out loud to himself, mak-
ing me think there was someone with him.
PRESIDING JUSTICE In the daytime too?
WITNESS No, at night.
PRESIDING JUSTICE The expert witness is asking whether he was
often absent-minded.
DR. LLEPMANN Did he keep much to himself? Was he reserved?
WITNESS Yes, he was always reserved and serious. As soon as he
came home, he would pick up the mandolin and play.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did he ever speak about the future to you?
WITNESS No.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you ever ask him why he came to Berlin?
WITNESS He said he came to study and, indeed, the second day
after his arrival he had already found a woman language teacher.
PRESIDING JUSTICE While he was staying with you did you ever
notice a significant change in his emotional state . .
WITNESS No.
PRESIDING JUSTICE . . or in his manner of living?
WITNESS No, he always remained the same. But there were times
when I heard him whistle; after all, a man cannot be sad all the time. In
general, he was a serious, unique sort of person.
VON GORDON Did he ever tell you about his past? Did he speak
about the loss of his parents?
WITNESS No, a few days after he left me, he came to obtain papers
to take to the police department to notify them of his change of address.
At that time I asked him about his past, and he told me how he had
returned home and found everything in ruins. He also told me his
parents, sisters and older brother were killed and he was the only sur-
vivor, but that he could not relate the story definitively. This is alt he told
me then. He cut the conversation short. I noticed he did not want to talk
about it any longer.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you notice him getting very emotional as he
related his story?
WITNESS Yes, yes. As it was, he only told me this much and only
because I asked him to.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you wish to establish the reason for his
moving?
WITNESS No, no. His friend was still living with me. He said he
wanted to speak with him; then he told about his room and at that time I
asked him.
(No other questions are directed to the witness)
Witness Mrs. Dittmarnt (landlady at 37 Hardenbergstrasse in
~~arIOttC~~hurg District of Berlin) takes the oath.
PRESIDING JUSTICE The defendant lived with you for a few weeks.
can you tell us something about his behavior and conduct?
WITNESS He was a kind, modest, quiet, and clean young man. He
kept everything in order. On the morning of March 15th, the day the in-
cident occurred, the maid came in to tell me that the defendant was in his
room crying. I told the maid that maybe there was a death in his family
and that it was best if we left him alone. I could not help him since he did
not understand me.
A little while later, I thought I would go up to see how he was doing. I
was surprised to find him sitting in his room, drinking cognac.
He remained in his room for some time and then left. After he had
gone, I went up to his room and saw that the bottle of cognac, from
which he had drunk, was still on the table.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Do you know perhaps when he bought the bot-
tle of cognac?
WITNESS The maid told me the same morning.
PRESIDING JUSTICE How much of the bottle had he drunk?
WITNESS Almost one third. It was a three-quarter liter bottle of
French cognac.
PRESIDING JUSTICE What else did he eat the same morning?
WITNESS Like any other day he had his cup of tea.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you have any suspicion as to what he was
going to do?
WITNESS Not at all. It was only when the maid came to tell me,
Mrs. Dittmann, our gentleman has been killed. I responded What
are you crazy or something? Later, I heard that he had killed someone.
At first, I did not want to believe it.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did the defendant appear to have his usual
comportment that day, or would you say that he was suffering deep
down inside and seemed absent-minded?
WITNESS One of his friends came one day and told me that the
defendant was sick and needed a room that had sunlight.
PRESIDING JUSTICE When the defendant came to you, did you
flOtice anything peculiar about him?
WITNESS No.
PRESIDING JUSTICE The whole time he stayed with you, did you
flotice anything peculiar?
WITNESS No.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did he study?
WITNESS Yes, he rarely went out.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did he have any visitors?
WITNESS None at all.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did he play a musical instrument?
WITNESS No.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did he seem nervous to you?
WITNESS Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did he seem hesitant?
WITNESS He would not look me straight in the eye. He would get
confused. He was always apprehensive and shy.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Was he frightened of anything?
WITNESS He had a frightened took.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did he seem to suffer from deep emotions?
WITNESS Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did he ever get incoherent, giving wrong and
confusing answers to simple questions?
WITNESS No, I cannot say that he did.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you ever notice that he looked sick?
WITNESS No, but he said that he was nervous and sick.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you ever notice if he had epileptic seizures
white he was in your building?
WITNESS No.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Therefore, in conclusion, you only have com-
plimentary things to say about him.
WITNESS Yes, he was a very proper young man.
PRESIDING JUSTICE (to the interpreter) Would you please tell the
defendant that this witness also te~tified in his favor?
PRESIDING JUSTICE (to the defendant) Who went with you to rent
the apartment?
DEFENDANT The president of the Armenian Students Association
of Berlin.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Is he here today?
DEFENDANT No.
DR. CASSIRER I would like to verify whether the defendant
remembers why he was crying on March 15th and whether he bought the
cognac that day.
DEFENDANT I bought the cognac the day before, as I felt weak. I
had a shot that evening and another the next morning with my tea.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you have a lot to drink the day of the inci-
dent?
DEFENDANT No, I only drank a little bit with my tea.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you ask the maid for a glass?
DEFENDANT Yes, I needed a glass to measure a shot.
PRESIDING JUSTICE The defendant insists that he drank very little.
Did he cry that same morning?
WITNESS Yes, I beard him.
VON GORDON Was it not, perhaps, a sad song you heard?
WITNESS It is possible. They do have such sad songs. But I thought
he was crying.
PRESIDING JUSTICE (to the defendant) Do you remember if, on the
morning of the incident, you were crying or humming songs?
DEFENDANT No.
VON GORDON (to the witness) Did you yourself see the defendant
open the bottle of cognac or was it the maid who told you that she saw it?
When did you see it? Was it around seven or eight oclock?
WITNESS It was after mne.
VON GORDON Then did he go out? When did he return?
WITNESS He did not come back at all.
VON GORDON I-fe must have returned since you said that it was
seven or eight oclock when he left the house.
PRESIDING JUSTICE The timing may fit.
WITNESS It was approximately eleven oclock when he left. After he
had his tea, he remained in his room. It was after eleven oclock when I
went up to put his room in order.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you perhaps hear an unusual commotion
prior to his leaving and did you think he was crying? After the defendant
left, did you see that one-third of the cognac bottle had been emptied?
WITNESS I do not know.
VON GORDON Do you know if the bottle was opened that morning?
WITNESS The maid would know that better than I.
PRESIDING JUSTICE (to the defendant) Had you bought the bottle
and drunk from it the day before?
DEFENDANT I had the battle opened where I bought it.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you drink a little with your tea that eve-
ning?
DEFENDANT Yes, I drank some with my tea.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you drink a glassful in the morning too?
DEFENDANT No.
PRESIDING JUSTICE The defendant denies having drunk the cognac
from a glass. I cannot understand that.
DEFENDANT First I measured it in the glass and then poured it into
the tea.
VON GORDON Had you noticed whether or not the defendant tried
to read German and practiced his German?
WITNESS Yes.
VON GORDON Did he take lessons from you?
WITNESS No, but he had homework. He said he was taking lessons.
PRESIDING JusTicE Did you see his revolver?
WITNESS No.
D~. LIEPMANN Did the defendant seem annoyed or depressed?
PRESIDING JUSTICE Was he hesitant?
WITNESS Yes, he was hesitant. (Smiling) At least I thought he Wa
quite hesitant.
PREStDING JUSTICE (to Mrs. Stellbaum) Did you ever see the defen.
dants revolver while he was staying with you?
WITNESS No.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you know that he had the revolver in thg
trunk?
WITNESS No.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did the defendant have a lot of persons
belongings?
WITNESS No, he had a trunk which he always left open.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you ever open the trunk?
WITNESS It was open. He had opened it and put it in the closet.
PRESIDING JUSTICE (to the defendant) Where did you keep yorn
revolver?
DEFENDANT It most likely was in the trunk.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Even when you were at Mrs. Stellbaums?
DEFENDANT It was in my trunk.
WITNESS I did not see it; he only had a piece of hand luggage.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Itis surprising that you have often looked in
the trunk, but not seen the revolver.
WITNESS I cannot say that I looked in the trunk often.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Mrs. Stellbaum, you are under oath. Have you
not seen the revolver at least once?
WITNESS Not even once.
PRESIDING JUSTICE The witness may be excused.
(No more questions were directed to the two witnesses, Ste//baum aria
Dittmann)
witness Loin Beilensofl (private tutor from Berlin, 21 years old)
take the oath.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Were you teaching the defendant German?
WITNESS Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Can you tell us something about his comport-
ment and habits?
WITNESS Since January 18th, I have been giving lessons to the
defendant. At the beginning, he used to be well prepared for his lessons,
but later Ofl he became absent-minded.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did he tell you that he was sick and was seeing
a physician?
WITNESS Later on. He told me that he had seen Professor Cassirer,
that the professor had prescribed medication and that he had found it
very difficult to study. On one occasion during our lessons, I noticed that
he could no longer read and did not know what he had written. It was
clear to me that he was sick. I told him that I saw no point in continuing
with the lessons. Thus the lessons were interrupted.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Approximately when was that?
WITNESS In February.
PRESIDING JUSTICE He started the lessons on January 18th. When
did he terminate them?
WITNESS ApproximatelY February 20th. In any event, it was during
the latter half of February.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did he later resume the lessons?
WITNESS He came once and told me that he was not feeling well. It
was easy to see that he had an emotional trauma. He always looked sad.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did he ever speak about his sadness?
WITNESS Only once, when I asked him about his homeland. He told
me that he no longer had a homeland and that all his immediate family
had been killed. This answer so clearly reflected his suffering that I did
not wish to pursue the subject any further.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you not ask him any further questions?
WITNESS Yes, I saw him one more time on either the 27th or the
28th of February.
PRESIDING JUSTICE How was he doing in his studies?
WITNESS At the beginning he was learning very well. As time went
by, he became more and more absent-minded. Even he kept saying, 1
cannot understand a thing.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Is it possible that he might have terminated
his studies the first part of March?
WITNESS Yes, it is possible.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Possibly a few days before March 5th, after
changing his apartment?
WITNESS He never came after moving. He only came when he we1
living on Augsburgerstrasse.
PRESIDING JUSTICE It looks as though there was a reason he chang.
ed apartments and terminated his studies
WITNESS I do not know. In March, maybe a week or so before the
incident, he called me by phone to tell me that he had changed apart-
ments and that he wanted to resume his lessons as soon as he felt better.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Then he must have terminated his studies in the
latter part of February?
WITNESS Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE (to the defendant) Was it after you had your vi-
sion that you terminated your lessons or did you have other reasons for
doing so?
DEFENDANT I terminated my lessons because I was weak and sick. I
called my teacher after I changed apartments to tell her that it was my in-
tention to resume my studies as soon as I felt better.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Then your vision had nothing to do with the
termination of your studies?
DEFENDANT I stopped studying on account of my poor health.
PRESIDING JUSTICE While you were with Mrs. Dittmann, did you
not get bored?
DEFENDANT Why should I have gotten bored?
PRESIDING JUSTICE Because you no longer had any studying to do.
DEFENDANT My lessons never gave me much pleasure anyway.
PRESIDING JUSTICE But if you had been taking lessons, at least they
would have provided a change of pace for you. How did you pass your
time when you were with Mrs. Dittmann~
DEFENDANT I often visited my Armenian friends.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you practice your German?
DEFENDANT After getting up in the morning, I used to read Ger-
man.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Was it a textbook? Did you have any other
German books?
DEFENDANT No, just my textbook.
VON GORDON Had you advanced in German enough so that, say,
you could read your indictment and understand it without too much dif-
ficulty?
DEFENDANT I can read printed much easier than handwritten
material.
(No more questions are directed to the witness Beilenson)
Witness Yervaut Apelian (Secretary of the Armenian Consulate,
erilfl, 23 years old, Armenian-Apostolic) takes the oath. Not
related to the defendant by blood or marriage.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you live in Mrs. Stellbaums building on
~~gSbUrgerstr~se with the defendant and did you become friends?
WITNESS Yes. Last year, in the middle of December, I met the
defendant through mutual friends. They introduced him to me and asked
me whether I could find lodging for him in the same place where I stayed,
siflCC he was a fellow Armenian and did not speak German. He desired to
be with his countrymen. So I talked to my landlady and she said she
would rent a room, which she had never rented out before, to my friend
until May 1st. The defendant came over the next day. This was in
December, after Christmas. At that time I was taking dancing lessons
with dance-master Friedrich so I convinced Tehlirian to come with me to
these lessons. The classes started in November. We used to take dancing
lessons every Tuesday, Friday, and Sunday. This is, the three of us,
Tehlirian, Eftian, and I. These private lessons continued for almost three
months.
PRESIDING JUSTICE What else did you do? Were you taking care of
business at the Consulate? Did you go out every day?
WITNESS Just in the evenings.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Were you with the defendant every day?
WITNESS We lived together. One day I was alone with him. He said
he wanted to get into the technical field. I did not pursue the matter with
him. One day, during our dance lessons, he passed out. I helped him up
and he regained consciousness. He was out for five or ten minutes. After
coming to, he wanted to return home.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did he fall down like that at any other time?
WITNESS No.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Was it this incident that prompted him to go
and see a physician?
WITNESS Yes. He went to Dr. Haake, who examined him. I do not
know what happened after that, since I was not there.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Were you a witness to any other fainting spells,
besides the one that took place during the dance class?
WITNESS I believe he had the same sort of attacks a number of
times. Once it happened on the staircase. But, I was not a witness to
these. I only heard about them from him.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did he complain of headaches?
WITNESS Yes. He said be had a headache and a wound on his head.
I cannot say exactly when he complained of this. It was sometime in
January before the attack on the dance floor.
PRESIDING JUSTICE How did the defendant pass his time? Did he
take lessons? Between the middle of January and the middle of
February, did he take lessons from Miss Beilenson? How often were
these lessons?
WITNESS I believe three times a week.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did he study at home too?
WITNESS Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Had you noticed any other symptoms of ill-
ness, like nervousness or absent-mindedness?
WITNESS Yes, he was very sensitive. He would get offended at the
slightest remark. However, in general, we got along well.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Do you know anything about his past life? Did
he tell you what happened to him in Turkey?
WITNESS Yes, he told me that he had lost his whole family.
PRESIDING JUSTICE When did he relate that to you?
WITNESS It was some time ago. I cannot give the exact date.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Had you talked about who the person responsi-
ble for the fate of his relatives was?
WITNESS No.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did he mention the presence of Tataat in Berlin
or what he ought to do to him?
WITNESS No.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Had he told you of his intention to move in
with Mrs. Dittmann before doing so?
WITNESS No, he had not told me where he was going to move.
However, one day he asked me to tell Mrs. Stellbaum that he wanted to
move because his physician had told him that the gas heater was
detrimental to his health.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Then he had also given you health reasons
as his excuse for moving?
WITNESS Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did he tell you that he had found an apartment
on Hardenbergstrasse?
WITNESS No, I did not know where it was. We were not such close
friends any longer.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did he have other friends? For example, did
Mr. Eftian visit him?
WITNESS Yes, the three of us were together quite often.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Just prior to his moving, did you notice a
change in his comportment or manners, or did he always behave the
same?
WITNESS He was the same.
PRESIDING JUSTICE When he told you he was going to move, did
you not raise any objections?
WITNESS I asked him the reason for his moving.
PRESIDING JUSTICE And did he give his health as the reason?
WITNESS Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you know that the defendant had a
revolver?
WITNESS No.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did he have a suitcase?
WITNESS Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you ever look in his suitcase?
WITNESS No.
PRESIDING JusTICE What is your opinion do you think he had
his revolver with him when he was residing at Augsburgerstrasse?
WITNESS That I do not know.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did he not ever talk to you about his intentions
to kill Talaat Pasha?
WITNESS No.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Had the defendant not told you he had seen
Talaat in the street?
WITNESS No.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Yet you were together quite often, were you
not?
WITNESS Yes, I wondered about that after the incident. However,
we never discussed politics.
PRESIDING JUSTICE I do not see that this is a matter of discussing
politics. Did you know that Talaat Pasha was living on Hardenberg-
strasse?
WITNESS No. As I said before, Tehlirian never spoke to me about
Talaat.
PRESIDING JUSTICE He never spoke to you about Talaat?
WITNESS No.
PRESIDINQ JUSTICE Did the defendant have any friends besides
you, Eftian, and Terzibashian?
WITNESS Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Can you tell us anything as to what motivated
the defendant to act as he did, or can you tell us anything about this inci-
dent?
WITNESS No.
VON GORDON Had you heard about his having fainted in the middle
of Erusalemerstrasse?
WITNESS Yes.
VON GORDON When was that? In January? February? Before or
after the incident at the dance?
WITNESS I believe it was in January.
VON GORDON Did Tehlirian tell you that?
WITNESS Yes.
VON GORDON Is it the custom among the Armenians not to speak at
all or to speak very little about these massacres?
WITNESS They speak about them, but not often.
PRESIDING JUSTICE These events are already a thing of the past.
VON GORDON When you speak of the massacres, what in particular
do you discuss the most?
WITNESS We speak about what happened to each of our families.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you not know yourself that Talaat was here
in Berlin? And had the defendant not ever told you that?
WITNESS No, I never spoke with him about these topics.
VON GORDON When the defendant told you that he wanted to
move, could you tell from his conversation whether or not he had already
rented a room, or was he just telling you that he intended to move?
WITNESS All he told me was that, by Saturday. he would be out.
VON GORDON But did the defendant not tell you that he was
dissatisfied with his place and that is why he wanted to get out?
WITNESS No, he did not say that.
VON GORDON Did you not get the feeling that he had already found
a place? Otherwise he could not state so emphatically that he would be
out by Saturday, which he did.
WITNESS Yes.
VON GORDON (addressing Mrs. Dittmann) Could you tell us Mrs.
Dittmann, when the defendant came and rented a room from you? Was
that room already vacant? Did he move in the same day or a few days
later?
MRS. DIrrMANN He moved in Sunday morning. It was a few days,
approximately 3 or 4 days, after he had rented the place. The room was
not vacant until then.
PRESIDING JUSTICE (to the interpreter) Would you please tell the
defendant that Mr. Apelian has testified that he had knowledge of three
fainting spells and that he gave health reasons for moving from Augs-
burgerstrasse. (This statement is translated.)
VON GORDON (to the witness Apelian) How many people were tak-
ing dancing lessons?
WITNESS About 60 to 70 people.
VON GORDON Did the defendant try to talk to the girls? Was he
withdrawn or daring?
WITNESS On the whole, he was not forward. He never danced with
any one particular girl. He was hoping to improve his German by striking
up conversations with different ones.
DR. LIEPMANN It sounds quite strange to me that, after all the
defendant had gone through, he did not speak to you, his friend, about
the massacres.
WITNESS One day we were reading Professor Lepsius book an
Ajlnena. The defendant snatched the book away from me, saying, Do
not..~ let us not open old wounds.
DR. LIEPMANN Are you trying to tell us that the defendant was
avoiding the topic of the massacres and did not wish to revive their
memory?
WITNESS The defendant took the book out of my hands and said,
Let us put the book away and have some fun.
PROFESSOR CASSIRER Do you know whether there was anything in
particular that caused the defendant to pass out on the dance floor?
WITNESS No, all he told me was that he did not feel well and he
wanted to go home.
PROFESSOR CASSIRER When he fell to the floor, did he cry out or
just mumble? Could you make out any of the words be mumbled?
WITNESS He did not cry out; he started mumbling.
PROFESSOR CASSIRER Was the defendant trembling?
WITNESS Yes, he was also foaming at the mouth.
PROFESSOR CAssIRER Was the foam colored?
WITNESS No.
PROFESSOR CASSIRER How long did he tremble like that?
WITNESS At least ten minutes.
PROFESSOR CASSIRER Did he regain consciousness right away?
WITNESS Yes.
DR. FORSTER You say that there was not any particular reason for
the attack. Is it not possible that, without your knowledge, the defendant
may have recalled the massacres for one reason or another just prior to
having had the attack?
WITNESS I do not know. All I know is that he did have a number of
these fainting spells.
PROFESSOR CASSIRER The witness states that he does not know the
cause but there must have been a definite reason for the attack. Is it not
possible that, right before its onset, the defendant may have seen cor-
pses lying all around him and thus recalled the massacres? Are you
familiar with something of this sort having happened?
WITNESS No, but he once told me that, prior to having fainting
spells, he would smell a certain pungent odor and then he would fall.
DR. STΤRMER May I remind you that you told me at the Armenian
Consulate that the fall began with a loud sharp cry?
WITNESS I cannot be certain if it was a cry or mumbling. In any
event he would stumble and fall. I cannot say any more than that.
Witness Levon Eftian (Berlin, 21 years old, Armenian-ApOstolic)
takes the oath. Not related to the defendant by blood or marriage.
PRESIDING JUSTICE When did you come to Berlin from Paris?
WITNESS In February 1920.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Since then have you been living with yo~
relatives?
WITNESS Yes, I am staying with my brother-in-law, Mr. Terzi.
bashian, who resides at 75 Oranienstrasse.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Does your brother-in-law have a tobacco shop
there?
WITNESS Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Does your sister, his wife, also live there?
WITNESS Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE And is your sister from Erzinga?
WITNESS No, from Gartn.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Is it true that you have had frequent contaci
with the defendant in Berlin?
WITNESS Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you take dancing lessons along with th
defendant from Master Friedricb?
WITNESS Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you visit the defendant white he was living
at Augsburgerstrasse?
WITNESS Two or three times.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did the defendant visit you and your relative
at your home on Oranienstrasse?
WITNESS Yes, he used to come at least once a week.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did he talk to your relatives?
WITNESS Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you notice whether or not he was sick 0
suffered attacks?
WITNESS He used to always tell us that he had a nervous disorder
He was always sad.
PRESIDING JUSTICE What did he complain of? In what way was th
sickness apparent? Could you tell by locking at him that be was disturb
ed, melancholic, and sad?
WITNESS He was always sad.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Was he happy while taking dancing lessons?
WITNESS It was mainly to boost his morale that we took him to th
dancing lessons anyway. Furthermore, it was an opportunity for him Ii
improve his Gennan.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Why was he sad? Was it his disposition?
WITNESS Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did he ever speak about the sad memories of
his past the loss of his sisters, brothers and parents? Did he speak
about the massacres?
WITNESS My sister would often broach the subject, but the defen-
dant did not want to talk about it.
PRESIDING JUSTICE When did your sister return to Berlin?
WITNESS About a year ago.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you lose many relatives in the massacres?
WITNESS My parents were also killed in the massacres. I came to
Constantinople in 1912 and went to school for three years, until 1915.
When the war broke out, I could not return to my hometown but I heard
that the deportation had already started. It was only later that I learned
that my parents and relatives had become victims of the massacres and
only my two brothers and my sister had survived.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Where were your parents massacred?
WITNESS In Garin.
PRESIDING JUSTICE When did the massacres take place?
WITNESS Between 1915 and 1916, I do not know the exact date.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you hear about these massacres from your
brothers and sister?
WITNESS My sister was in Garin when the massacres took place. She
was an eyewitness.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Do you know anything concerning the nervous
disorder of the defendant?
WITNESS I have heard about his attacks but was never present when
they occurred. I have also heard that he was melancholic.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Other than the incident on the dance floor,
were you present at any time when the defendant lost consciousness?
WITNESS No.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did the defendant ever tell you that he had
these fainting spells from time to time?
WITNESS Yes. He told me that he was weak. He told me in detail
how he passed out in the street several times.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you know that the defendant did not want
to stay any longer with Mrs. Stellbaum?
WITNESS No.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did that sudden move surprise you? After all,
he was living with your countryman Apelian?
WITNESS The defendant told me he wanted to move because his
room did not have an electric heater.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Do you remember when he told you this?
WITNESS Just prior to his moving.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Then did he move right away?
WITNESS He moved about a month later.
PRESIDING JUSTICE He moved at the beginning of March to Flax.
denbergstrasse. When did he talk to you about moving?
WITNESS The first part of February.
PRESIDING JUSTICE He told you in early February that he wanted to
move9
WITNESS Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Do you know anything about the incident h~
question?
WITNESS No.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you know that Talaat Pasha was in Berlin?
WITNESS It never occurred to me.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Even if you did not know personally, had yoj~
not perhaps heard rumors to that effect?
WITNESS Such rumors were going around in Constantinople.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Since you came to Berlin from Paris at the end
of January 1920, have you been in Berlin the whole time?
WITNESS In 1918, right after the armistice, it was rumored that
Talaat Pasha was in Berlin. But no one knew for sure.
PRESIDING JUSTICE (to the interpreter) Would you tell the defen-
dant that this witness has testified that he was not an eyewitness to any of
his fainting spells; that every week they would see each other and that the
defendant avoided the subject of the massacres in general.
(It is translated)
VON GORDON (to the witness) Was Talaat Pasha considered the on-
ly responsible party for the Armenian tragedy in your circles? I cannot
understand bow it is that none of the Armenians tried to verify whether
or not Talaat was in Berlin. Did anyone care? After all, this should have
aroused the greatest concern. Rumors were circulating recently that
Talaat Pasha was in Berlin. Had you only heard about this in Constan-
tinople?
WITNESS I did not know that Talaat Pasha was in Berlin.
DEFENDANT I did not know that either.
PRESIDING JUSTICE (to the defendant) But you saw Talaat in the
street in Berlin. Why did you not mention this important fact to your
countrymen?
DEFENDANT I was afraid they would laugh at me.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Why would they laugh at you? After all, was
Tataat not considered the author of the massacres in general? Tcr-
zibashian, it seems, wanted to discuss them with you and talk about
Tataat. Why did you not mention it to him?
DEFENDANT The subject of Talaat never came up.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Why did you keep it a secret?
DEFENDANT I had no special interest in it.
PRESIDING JUSTICE But we are interested in knowing why you did
not mention it.
DEFENDANT If I were to mention it, they would ask a lot of ques-
tions.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Then the reason you kept it a secret was so that
they would not get inquisitive and bother you with questions?
DEFENDANT I was in such poor physical condition that I did not
want to discuss the subject.
Witness Mr. Schultze (privy counselor to the court and Assistant
Chief of Police, Charlottenburg District Court, Berlin, 53 years
old, Protestant) takes the oath.
WITNESS I wonder if it is essential to bring out here all that the
defendant said during his first interrogation. I would propose that we not
get into that.
VON GORDON We agree.
DISTRICT ATrORNEY I would appreciate it if we could hear
Schultze.
(The Court decides to listen to the testimony of Schultze. After taking
the oath.)
PRESIDING JUSTICE You were the first one to interrogate the defen-
dant. We would appreciate it if you could tell us what you learned from
the defendant.
WITNESS I remember the answers of the defendant quite distinctly.
Without any difficulty, he confessed that he had killed Talaat Pasha
deliberately and with premeditation. When I asked him for his reasons,
he said that Talaat was responsible for the massacres of his relatives, or
at least some of them. He told me that he had come to Berlin specifically
to kill Talaat and avenge the murder of his relatives.
PRESIDING JUSTICE When had the defendant made up his mind to
kilt Talaat?
WITNESS The defendant told me that he had made up his mind in
Turkey. He had purchased a revolver and had been looking for Talaats
residence. Having located it, he rented a room across from the victims
house. From this vantage point, he kept Talaats residence under
surveillance and when, on the day in question, the defendant saw Talaat
leave the house, he grabbed his revolver and followed his victim. So that
there would be no mistake, he walked past Tataat, then turned around
and looked the victim squarely in the eye. After convincing himself that
this was Talaat, the defendant shot the victim from the back. This is
what the defendant told me.
PRESIDING JUSTtCE Did you take all possible precautions during the
interrogation to prevent any misunderstanding?
WITNESS Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE (to the interpreter) What do you have to say
about this? Is the testimony the truth?
ICALOUSTIAN Yes. However, the defendant was in no condition to
think straight at the time.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Was the interrogation conducted on March
16th?
KALOUSTIAN The defendants head was still bandaged
PRESIDING JUSTICE (to witness Schultze) Does the testimony you
have just given correspond to the record of the March 16th interroga-
tion?
VON GORDON The defendant had a fever at the time.
SCI-IULTZE The defendant did say that the crowd had attacked him
and he had a head wound. However, at the time I interrogated him. he
seemed to be quite calm and collected.
PRESIDING JUSTiCE (to the defendant) On March 16th did you con-
fess that, in 1915, ever since you managed to escape the massacres, you
had already decided to kill Talaat Pasha?
DEFENDANT I do not remember ever having said anything like that.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Do you deny having confessed that you had
planned to kill Talaat for a long time?
DEFENDANT No, how could I possibly have said that?
PRESIDING JUSTICE You must have said it because that is what the
interpreter translated during the interrogation.
DEFENDANT Maybe I said something like that, but I do not
remember because my head was injured and bandaged on account of the
inquiry.
PRESIDING JUSTICE So you wish to say that it is probably because
your bead was injured at the time. From a legal point of view, it makes a
significant difference whether you decided to kilt Tataat on March 1st,
fourteen days before the incident, or whether you decided to kill Talaat
years ago, bought a revolver back then, and came to Berlin in order to
carry out your well thought out plan. There is a basic difference. Were
you not aware of what you were saying at the time of the interrogation?
DEFENDANT I do not remember what I said on that day. I have just
been told that.
PRESIDING JUSTICE (to witness Schultze) Did you pursue this line of
questioning with the defendant and did he give these responses to your
questions?
WITNESS No, the defendant just confessed and told me the whole
story of how he had rented the apartment opposite Talaats house in
order to keep an eye on him.
PRESIDING JUSTICE The defendant says that even today but does
not admit having bad that plan in mind and having prepared to execute it
for several years now.
WITNESS As it is recorded in the transcript, the defendant confessed
that he had come to Berlin as much to study German as to seek revenge.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Is there any reason why we should read the
transcript?
VON GORDON There is no need. I would like to ask the defendant if,
satisfied with what he had done, he said, I did it. I certainly did it
because I had sworn to do it. With this inner gratification he answered
every question in the affirmative. Did you say, I had planned this for
years and I am happy I did it?
DEFENDANT I do not know.
NIEMEYER The interrogation was carded out with the help of an In-
terpreter. Such an interrogation could have been conducted in a confused
manner. Either the interrogator was allowed to speak freely and then the
interpreter translated by summarizing what was said, or the interregator
asked short precise questions which were translated for the defendant
and then relayed to the interrogator. We are experiencing a similar situa-
tion today. However, thanks to the skill of the interpreter, everything is
working out smoothly, as if we were getting the answer directly from the
defendant. The interpreter, Mr. Zakariantz, seems to be taking the
wards out of the defendants mouth. He is doing an extremely competent
job. Usually, when the services of an interpreter are required, it is a stow,
choppy, step-by-step process. I would like to know in what manner the
interrogation took place?
WITNESS As far as I remember, I allowed the defendant to speak
calmly and relate how the incident took place. Only then did I ask
specific questions. This was the general format. I cannot remember the
details. In any event, I allowed him to speak calmly and I assigned the in-
terpreter the task of directing the questions and then translating his
answers for me. I asked questions about his motives as well.
VON GORDON Could you tell us whether the interpreter was very ex-
cited? Do you recall his mood?
WITNESS On the contrary, it seemed to me that the interpreter was
enjoying his work.
VON GORDON Did he not speak excitedly about the defendant?
Please describe it for us.
WITNESS The interpreter was completely calm. He had brought
sweets and pastries and offered them to the defendant. I asked him,
Why have you brought sweets to this murderer? He replied, What
do you mean murderer? Me is a great man and he has our admiration.
VON GORDON This statement is very important.
PRESIDING JUSTICE We still have the following witnesses to ex-
amine: Mr. and Mrs. Terzibashian and the two physicians, four
altogether, if the defense attorneys do not call any others
VON GORDON I am sorry we are not in a position to make a decision
on that today. In tight of the defendants interests we consider that im-
possible. We can deliberate on that matter tomorrow morning.
DR. STτRMER I have received an open letter from the vice-president
of the Medical Council requesting my presence at a meeting tomorrow
morning. I shall have to leave by 10:00 A.M. tomorrow. I am also suffer-
ing from a pinched nerve and I intend to go to the doctor and get an in-
jection to kill the pain. If not, I cannot sit here any longer. My coming
tomorrow is doubtful.
PRESIDING JUSTICE I would suggest that we postpone this matter
until we find out what we can learn from the other four witnesses.
VON GORDON We shall reserve the right to ask for additional
evidence, though we shall do so in the hope that such demands not be
prevented by the court employing forceful measures.
NIEMEYER Is it not possible for Dr. StOrmer to give his view alone
and comprehensively, while the other physicians wait and give their
testimony later on so that we can get the whole medical picture concern-
ing the defendant from alt five expert witnesses at one time?
VON GORDON We have to be prepared and fresh to be able to cross-
examine the expert witnesses, and I am sure it will take considerable
time.
PRESIDING JUSTICE (to Dr. Stbrmer) Can we do it this way?
DR. STΤRMER Since I am here I shall do my duty. However, I cant
say what condition I shall be in tomorrow.
(A half-hour recess is called)
CONTINUATION OF THE TRIAL
AFTER THE NOON RECESS
Witness Vahan Zakariantz (interpreter and merchant, 38 years
old, Armenian-Apostolic, Wilmersdorf, Berlin) takes the oath.
Not related to the defendant by blood or mamage.
PRESIDING JUSTICE You are a member of the executive body of the
German-Armenian Friendship Club, and you met the defendant when he
came to the Armenian Consulate, is that correct?
WITNESS No, I met the defendant at the Persian Consulate. I work-
ed for the Persian Consulate at the beginning of the war. One day I was
asked by my superior to assist the defendant. He had come to inquire
about the procedure to follow in order to stay as a resident in Germany. I
told him what documents he needed and how to get in touch with the
Police Department.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did he ask for your help again?
WITNESS No.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you ever have occasion to speak to him
again?
WITNESS Yes, he had gotten hold of my address.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did the defendant live on Augsburgerstrasse?
WITNESS I did not know where he lived as I had never visited him.
He told me he was sick and needed a physician who specialized in ner-
vous disorders. He was not satisfied with the physician he was seeing. He
wanted a specialist.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you then take him to Professor Cassirer?
WITNESS Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE When was that?
WITNESS I do not remember exactly. I assume the Professor can tell
us.
PRESIDING JUSTICE What was the Professor s diagnosis?
WITNESS That Tehlirian was an epileptic, but that he should not be
informed of the fact.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Were you present when the Professor examined
the defendant?
WITNESS Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Were you also present at subsequent examina-
tions?
WITNESS I was present on two occasions.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Had the defendant told you that he had an
epileptic seizure once, in the street?
WITNESS Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Would you please tell us what he told you
about the incident?
WITNESS That he passed out on Erusalemerstrasse in front of a
bank and that some passersby had helped him up and brought him by
subway to his residence.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did he describe his condition to you in detail?
WITNESS He could not recall it.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Has the defendant ever spoken to you about his
immediate family?
WITNESS No, but I was present when he told Professor Cassirer that
the first time be lost consciousness was when he returned and found his
home destroyed.
PRESIDING JUSTICE On this occasion did you talk about the
massacres with him?
WITNESS No, as a general rule I did not discuss the massacres, par-
ticularly with others who, like him, bad suffered from them. In general, I
prefer not to excite people.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you ever speak to the defendant about the
massacres or what happened to his relatives?
WITNESS No, because I knew he had suffered and I did not want to
revive those painful memories.
PRESIDING JUSTICE How did you know that?
WITNESS Professor Cassirer told me that the defendant had lost
consciousness when thinking about the massacres.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you maintain a friendly relationship with
the defendant while he was living at AugsburgerstraSse?
WITNESS No.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you know Mr. Eftian and Mr. Ter-
zibashian?
WITNESS I have known Mr. Terzibashian for some time.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Now then, you helped the defendant twice
while he was going to Professor Cassirer. Were you ever present when
the defendant had epileptic fits?
WtTNESS No.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Is that why you cannot tell us anything about
that?
WITNESS Yes.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you know that Talaat Pasha was here in
Berlin?
WITNESS No, I was not aware of it personally, but it was written in
the newspapers that he was living in Germany.
PRESIDING JUSTICE What newspapers are these?
WITNESS I cannot remember now. I read French, Armenian, Ocr-
man, Russian, and Persian newspapers. In one of these newspapers I
read that Talaat was most likely living in Germany.
PRESIDING JUSTICE When a member of the Armenian communitj
encounters Talaat or another Turk in the street, would that not be suchi
startling event that news of it would spread like wildfire among thu
Armenians? Did the defendant never tell you that he had seen Talaat?
WITNESS No.
PRESWINC JUSTICE Can you tell us anything about the defendanti
physical condition?
WITNESS I have seen the defendant quite infrequently. He waj
always dejected and had a vacant stare.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Have you had any other contact with him?
WITNESS Once we exchanged a few words.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Did you include the defendant in any soda
gatherings or outings?
WITNESS No.
DEFENDANT When we were at Professor Cassirers, I told him I ha~
fallen after having seen my familys house in ruins and that, ever sina
then, I have had these attacks.
PRESIDING JUSTICE The witness also stated that he personally hai
never seen the defendant during any of the latters attacks.
(No more questions are asked of the witness)
PRESIDING JUSTICE (to the second interpreter, Mr. Kaloustian)
Would you please tell the defendant that this witness testified that the3
met at the Persian Consulate and he helped him obtain permission to sta)
in Berlin, that he took the defendant on two occasions to Professai
Cassirer, and that there was no discussion between them about tht
massacres.
witness Kevork KaIonStiaI (interpreter and merchant, TI yeatS
old, ArfllC~~ian.APOStOlIC~ Berflfl) takes the oath. Not related to
the defendant by bROOd or marriage.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Can you tell us anything about the defendant
or the incident in question.
WITNESS The defendant would come to my store and buy things.
This is how I met him.
PRrSIDINO JUSTICE Exactly when did your meeting occur?
WITNESS Three or four months before the incident.
PRESIDING JUSTICE Dm1 you have any conversation other than that
of a merchant and cuStomer?
WITNESS The defendant told me that he was ill. I suggested that he
buy ~hoCO1atC to give him strength and he did. He also told me that, as
as he got